Toxic Nitrate Level?

[nbd13]

Does anyone know at what level Nitrates become toxic to SPS?

I’ve been loosing some sps lately. Sent off an icp test this morning, my PO4 is coming down slowly, but my nitrates are still pretty high 50-75. Wondering if that’s the culprit?

Thanks

 

[ndrwater]

I would doubt Nitrate is the sole reason for SPS loss. Even at those numbers. While i wouldn't generally recommend Nitrate at those levels, there is precedence for levels that high and still being successful keeping SPS. Sanjay has Nitrate levels in that range and I doubt anyone would call him unsuccessful.
Probably other contributing factors such as to low a phosphate level for that high of Nitrate. Flow is another big contributor. As is fluctuating Alkalinity or elevated alkalinity without proper acclimation.
Long answer for do a water change and see what the ICP test says..

 

[nbd13]

I would doubt Nitrate is the sole reason for SPS loss. Even at those numbers. While i wouldn't generally recommend Nitrate at those levels, there is precedence for levels that high and still being successful keeping SPS. Sanjay has Nitrate levels in that range and I doubt anyone would call him unsuccessful.
Probably other contributing factors such as to low a phosphate level for that high of Nitrate. Flow is another big contributor. As is fluctuating Alkalinity or elevated alkalinity without proper acclimation.
Long answer for do a water change and see what the ICP test says..

Thanks. PO4 is .3

I have 3 MP40s in a 150 and 800 gph return flow.

Alk has been steady for the last 3-4 weeks at 8.4-8.6

 

[jda]

That is pretty high.

There are some acropora that would not be happy about this level.

There are also some acropora that do not mind at all. I doubt that MBP&S mind.

If you are losing what people consider the "harder to keep" SPS, then this could be the reason. To keep all kinds of SPS and have them thrive, I would get the level down.

 

[Coralreefer1]

Nitrates are not toxic! Ammonia and nitrites are...

 

[SeaDweller]

I can tell you what I found to be deadly to acros...200+ ppm NO3 and 3.0+ ppm PO4... so yours are pretty high, but not sure if it’s killing them.
I’ve experimented keeping them in 10, 25, and 40-50 ppm NO3 and they tolerated 50 ppm, but still not happy.

 

[nbd13]

Thanks everyone.

Don’t want to go back to using chaeto but may have too to get Nitrate down.

PO4 coming down and is at .14 now with GFO.

Just need to get nitrates down now.

 

[SeaDweller]

Thanks everyone.

Don’t want to go back to using chaeto but may have too to get Nitrate down.

PO4 coming down and is at .14 now with GFO.

Just need to get nitrates down now.

Why not do some 50% water changes?

 

[LilElroyJetson]

Thanks everyone.

Don’t want to go back to using chaeto but may have too to get Nitrate down.

PO4 coming down and is at .14 now with GFO.

Just need to get nitrates down now.

Chaeto would certainly help. Curious, why you prefer to stay away from it?

 

[JAMSOURY]

My nitrate shot up to 100 really quick, I’m not sure if that’s the reason for some of sps loss. Maybe a quick fluctuation? Does anyone know if nitrate fluctuation can stress the sps?

 

[jda]

IMO, chaeto is a wonderful way to control both N and P. First, it does use both N and P. Second, it will never take either to true zero, but will get you nice and low.

It is a bad idea if you are doing other things like using GFO, Organic Carbon, LC and the like... this is not a good idea.

I find the stuff to be very effective if 1). you are a regular water changer, or you dose iron (it can deplete it quickly) and 2). if you prune it or cut it in half every so often... a loose smaller ball will grow quicker than a tight, dense one. The stuff can suffer if N and P are high or if you never change water and it never gets any iron.

 

[nbd13]

I used chaeto when first starting my tank and had very low nutrients...too low and got Dino’s.

It was also a pain to trim it, stuff would get everywhere, sucked into my return, skimmer and UV pumps so I’d have to clean those after I trimmed it.

I just wanted to avoid it, but corals did way better than they are doing now. So might bite the bullet and try chaeto again and just limit the lighting period for it instead of doing 12 hours maybe only do 6-8 or so. Also I was doing iron for it so I’ll do that again.

Thanks

 

[Ike]

My nitrate shot up to 100 really quick, I’m not sure if that’s the reason for some of sps loss. Maybe a quick fluctuation? Does anyone know if nitrate fluctuation can stress the sps?

How quick? There could be test noise from other nitrogen sources if there’s something dead in your tank and you don’t realize it.

 

[ryshark]

I used chaeto when first starting my tank and had very low nutrients...too low and got Dino’s.

It was also a pain to trim it, stuff would get everywhere, sucked into my return, skimmer and UV pumps so I’d have to clean those after I trimmed it.

I just wanted to avoid it, but corals did way better than they are doing now. So might bite the bullet and try chaeto again and just limit the lighting period for it instead of doing 12 hours maybe only do 6-8 or so. Also I was doing iron for it so I’ll do that again.

Thanks

Maybe try something like seachem matrix first, if you want to avoid the cheato.

 

[jda]

You don't put chaeto on a new tank. This is not an issue with the macro, this was an issue with your application of it. If you do decide to use it again, it will be a whole different experience this time, IMO.

When you need to trim it, just grab two halves near the middle and pull it in two. Discard (safely) the half that you do not want. Then, pull the remaining half apart a little to spread it out a bit.

 

[Elegance Coral]

Nitrates are produced from the breakdown of organics. Many other compounds are produced by this same process. Some of these other compounds can be highly toxic, even at fairly low concentrations, and are hard to test for. We concentrate on nitrate simply because it's easy to test for.

So, even if nitrate, in and of itself, is not highly toxic, many of the other compounds that can potentially come along with nitrate can be very toxic.

Every system is different. The rate at which a particular compound is broken down, changed, or removed from each system can vary wildly. A system that maintains high nitrate levels, without adverse effects being detected, is NOT evidence to exclude nitrate concentrations as evidence of overall tank health in ever system. Sanjay Joshi may be able to maintain high nitrate levels with seemingly healthy corals because his system is efficient and processing or removing other compounds or elements before they reach toxic levels. That does not mean every system has this capability. All it takes is the accumulation of one toxic element, like a heavy metal, or one compound like hydrogen sulfide, which can both be released into the water from the breakdown of organics, along with nitrate, to cause major problems for corals.

The ICP test concentrates on elements. Leaving out organic compounds. So even if the test comes back showing everything they tested for being within acceptable ranges, it leaves out a whole multitude of potential problems that were not tested for.

The OP's system has high nitrate and phosphate. Both of which are produced through the breakdown of organics. Combine that with poor coral health, and it's not much of a leap to suggest something's wrong with the water. Even if we can't put our finger on exactly what that problem is.

If it were my system, I'd do as TitanCi suggested above. Do a LARGE water change. Maybe a few LARGE water changes. Then I would reevaluate the system to determine why the products of rot and decay, organic breakdown, are accumulating within the system.

JMHO
Peace
EC