Transfer/Upgrade - should I expect a cycle?

[Voltaire81]

Hi. I was planning to do my upgrade in 2 phases since Im not sure I can do it in one day. It will be from 150g to 225g.

1st phase is to grab the livestock from seller and add fish to QT and adding corals to existing tank, nems to a basket (or current tank), and rocks to a container.
Im planning to completely wash the sellers sand.

2nd phase - 2 weeks later, Im grabbing the aquarium - put the washed sand and seed with live sand and add live rock to the tank. Ill also be using old filter socks from the current sump for additional bacteria and will also try siphon the sand from my current sump and use that in the new sump.

Presumably, the tank will cycle? Can i expect a long cycle or a mini one considering ill have live rock\some live sand\filter socks?

Im not sure if this is enough details to determine if the tank will cycle so pls let me know if I need to provide anything else.

I just want to prepare the wife that she will be staring at two relatively large tanks for a few weeks.

 

[melypr1985]

You may experience a small/short cycle. Since your using all live rock that will help tremendously. Keep test kits ready and new saltwater for water changes. Will you be putting the livestock in the new tank once it's set up? That would be fine, just keep an eye on the ammonia to be ready for water changes if necessary.
When i upgraded, i did it all in one day and never saw much of a cycle. I got a mild case of diatoms, but they were gone in just a few days and everything tested normal the whole time. I also used all live rock. The only difference is i bought all new live sand as well.

 

[shoelaceike]

If you use live there shouldn't be a cycle. I've done this multiple times and never lost anything.

 

[brandon429]

It is for sure possible to do with zero cycle, or using other methods a partial or full cycle. I did it in my tank using the zero cycle option


Moving truly cured live rock, the kind with tons of coralline and small animals in it, among tanks won't kill those animals even if water conditions vary a bit. Exposing the live rock to air or harsh treatment might, so just keep things submerged as needed.

Not using an API test kit for low level readings is the number one way to avoid a mini cycle don't use API for this move use salifert.

Sandbeds are the risk as they contain the most ammonia possibilities

Your current tank animals and LR shouldn't be subjected to being in a tank where sand bed work is being done, separate these events.

When considering sand beds for the new tank, use all live new sand and be done or just rinse yours so that no mulm mid breakdown is moved over. In every tank move a cycle can be predicted and pre addressed each time simply by not using API and by accounting for transferring substrates free of organic wastes and transporting them underwater as possible.

 

[shoelaceike]

Yes I should mention that I always use new (live) sand and keep the rock submerged at all times.....

 

[brandon429]

know what's funny

I routinely leave my lr in the air for 10-20 mins at a time when my entire tank is drained for thorough cleanings (so this includes all corals too) w no recycle and most all live rock/typical easy corals will do this on command...but for web fare I always offer kid glove options for live rock (careful transfer under water) just to be safe

one of these days I'm going to do something really neat with my little old pico reef to make the point about cycle controls hit home: a web video first.

when planning and filming time and non procrastination allows im going to drain my pico empty with ten years of life in it, strap it in front seat of car drained with all animals in the air, and drive to get a coke from sonic (one constant video feed for soda pop run no edit breaks) then back home. take it inside, then fill it all up w 100% new mixed water and demo the opened, happy corals two days later (whereas a cycle or true .25 event will kill a pico and they need a day to recover/open fully so 2nd day looks nice)

sonic is 5 blocks away and not a 10 minute total round trip. I already know the timing will work due to simple water changes that take twice as long, the real risk is dropping it or the untimely fender bender on the way but man will that video look sick.

The point is deliberate control of cycles, not whether the tank may or may not recycle or cycle partially. This little reef gets poked a lot to prove biology tenets, the sonic run is probably less harmful than the internal 35% peroxide dosing below (demos that our bacteria arent harmed by p use in tank). Right now its got metal rusting in it on purpose to show another poster that some rust doesnt harm should someone drop a razor in a reef spot they can't get to


turn down your sound a terrible backing track was chosen heh

the rust razor challenge:

Not sure why that pic won't post maybe a browser issue

 

[Voltaire81]

@melypr - I won't be putting livestock in the new tank right away. Once its setup with sand and live rock, ill watch the parameters first. If Im not seeing ammonia at all in days/weeks, then I ill slowly start moving livestock.

@shoe - it sounds like I should go with new live sand, but the seller has ~250lbs of Tropic Eden Reeflakes - Aragonite sand. I feel that I just need to thoroughly wash it so I can re-use. I guess the downside is that it will likely be "dead" when I add to the tank. If I wash with saltwater, will it keep it alive?
This is something I need to think about. I really like the look of the sand too.

@Brandon - Im gonna siphon the sand in my sump and turn off the return while Im doing it so hopefully, that won't bother the fish, inverts and corals in my display. I won't be re-using my current sand. My live rock do have coralline in them. I did pick up some rock from the seller and during the transport, perhaps half of the rock were not submerged (maybe 30-40 min drive). They're now sitting in a bucket with an air pump. Hope that was fine.

I think the wife will be ok with a mini-cycle (1-2 weeks). Im just worried that it may take longer, so hopefully it won't.

 

[ReefMadScientist]

99% sure you will hit a cycle. I did the same and came across a nasty ammonia cycle WITH my corals and fish in it. Luckily, I used dechlorinator and waited out the process which killed nothing.

 

[Voltaire81]

By the same, do you mean that you tried to re-use sand instead of using new live sand?

 

[shoelaceike]

Why would there be a cycle? The nitrifying bacteria is in the live rock and sand. As long as there is no die-off there cannot not be any significant cycle.

Sand is cheap so I always buy new to be on the safe side but washing it should be fine.

I'm actually about to upgrade again and will be adding the livestock on the same day or a day after filling.......if you wait to add livestock, make sure to feed the tank.

 

[shoelaceike]

@melypr - I won't be putting livestock in the new tank right away. Once its setup with sand and live rock, ill watch the parameters first. If Im not seeing ammonia at all in days/weeks, then I ill slowly start moving livestock.

@shoe - it sounds like I should go with new live sand, but the seller has ~250lbs of Tropic Eden Reeflakes - Aragonite sand. I feel that I just need to thoroughly wash it so I can re-use. I guess the downside is that it will likely be "dead" when I add to the tank. If I wash with saltwater, will it keep it alive?
This is something I need to think about. I really like the look of the sand too.

@Brandon - Im gonna siphon the sand in my sump and turn off the return while Im doing it so hopefully, that won't bother the fish, inverts and corals in my display. I won't be re-using my current sand. My live rock do have coralline in them. I did pick up some rock from the seller and during the transport, perhaps half of the rock were not submerged (maybe 30-40 min drive). They're now sitting in a bucket with an air pump. Hope that was fine.

I think the wife will be ok with a mini-cycle (1-2 weeks). Im just worried that it may take longer, so hopefully it won't.

You can get 20 lbs if live sand from Foster Smith for like $17 delivered.

 

[scardall]

I would not put livestock in NEW setup for at least 2 weeks after. Monitor/test every 3-5 days to watch for the normal cycling. You want stability here. Once stable for 5-7 days slowly add over next 2 weeks. Now you can add a sacrificial fish the next day after initial setup.

REMEMBER you have a rebuild period to get BACK TO, this will be your Original beginning level, than you will be building up your increased load ability of you NEW setup. Their are products that Will help the cycle Plus----- DON'T RUSH ------- Please--and Have FUN

 

[Voltaire81]

Ive used Biospira for my QT's in the past. The tank cycled in 1-2 days and have had no issues. However, Im hesitant to use in a large scale.

I won't rush since I don't want to lose the stock that I've accumulated.

 

[scardall]

Please let us know that your transfer, when done was successful ?

 

[Voltaire81]

Oh absolutely. Once I take possession of the tank, ill start a build thread!

 

[Voltaire81]

Hi - one more question.

I started the cycle yesterday on my 120g sump. I will be putting live rock and live sand in this sump this week. Once this is cycled then plumbed into the display, will it pretty much mean my display will cycle in a few days?

I still havent decided if im buying new sand or use old sand to the display, but it will have live rock for sure.

The question is more once if I plumb my display to a cycled sump.