Treating Toby with copper

[skr791346]

Has anyone had any success with treating Tobies with Copper Power?

Specifically a blue spot Toby in my case, on my 2nd one now trying to treat in QT with no success. Arrives looking good, eats by 2nd day. After slowly raising copper over 7 days to 1.75, becomes lethargic / stops eating and dies overnight.

Is TTM the only option for these guys?

 

[HotRocks]

Has anyone had any success with treating Tobies with Copper Power?

Specifically a blue spot Toby in my case, on my 2nd one now trying to treat in QT with no success. Arrives looking good, eats by 2nd day. After slowly raising copper over 7 days to 1.75, becomes lethargic / stops eating and dies overnight.

Is TTM the only option for these guys?

Puffers generally will not tolerate copper (Some will tolerate it). I would recommend using Chloroquine Phosphate (CP) to treat them prophylactically.

 

[skr791346]

I remember reading somewhere that they can be sensitive to CP as well? Or am I misinformed?

 

[HotRocks]

I remember reading somewhere that they can be sensitive to CP as well? Or am I misinformed?

I am not aware of issues regarding the use of CP with Puffers.
I tried a Porcupine in Copper and ended up moving to CP because it wouldn't eat. It started eating within a couple days of being moved to CP
I have successfully treated the following with CP:
Porcupine
Spiny Box
Golden
Stars and Stripes

For what it is worth, I have never lost one in CP. Those are the only 4 I have ever treated.

 

[Big G]

Has anyone had any success with treating Tobies with Copper Power?

Specifically a blue spot Toby in my case, on my 2nd one now trying to treat in QT with no success. Arrives looking good, eats by 2nd day. After slowly raising copper over 7 days to 1.75, becomes lethargic / stops eating and dies overnight.

Is TTM the only option for these guys?

Sorry to hear about your losses.
I've had success with Tobys using Copper Power and the Hanna HL Copper Checker, dosed up to 1.75 ppm in the QT for 30 days.

 

[skr791346]

I am not aware of issues regarding the use of CP with Puffers.
I tried a Porcupine in Copper and ended up moving to CP because it wouldn't eat. It started eating within a couple days of being moved to CP
I have successfully treated the following with CP:
Porcupine
Spiny Box
Golden
Stars and Stripes

For what it is worth, I have never lost one in CP. Those are the only 4 I have ever treated.

I've had no issues treating Porcupine and Golden in copper in the past as well. Are there any reliable sources for CP? Not able to get a prescription from my vet and never had luck with batches from eBay or Fish Remedies

Sorry to hear about your losses.
I've had success with Tobys using Copper Power and the Hanna HL Copper Checker, dosed up to 1.75 ppm in the QT for 30 days.

Thank you, getting discouraged after losing a 2nd one. I'm using the Hanna Checker but even at 1.5 ppm, they start to get lethargic. Perhaps a bad source of fish on top of their copper sensitivity.

 

[Big G]

I've had no issues treating Porcupine and Golden in copper in the past as well. Are there any reliable sources for CP? Not able to get a prescription from my vet and never had luck with batches from eBay or Fish Remedies



Thank you, getting discouraged after losing a 2nd one. I'm using the Hanna Checker but even at 1.5 ppm, they start to get lethargic. Perhaps a bad source of fish on top of their copper sensitivity.

Can we compare notes on a few things?
20 gallon QT that has been fully cycled for over 35 days.
Aquaclear 50 HOB filter with BioMax ceramic media that has been soaking in my sump for 30+ days; foam filter pad soaked the same.
Dosed tank with Seachem Stability as directed on the bottle.
*** doing the two steps above, I've never seen ammonia test in the QT. Only change water about once a week.
Powerhead aimed up a surface for better O2 exchange
Dosed Copper Power in small amounts AM, lunch, PM over 5 days to reach therapeutic level
Fish came in at salinity of 0.019 from Live Aquaria. Kept it at 0.020 until the copper treatment was done.
Food: @jsker turned me on to making fish "smoothies" to give the fish a wide variety of proteins, fats, and vitamins. Several different frozen fish cubes one each: chopped clams, mysis, brine, cyclops, seaweed, reef mix, etc. Allow to "slump" in a tupperware in the fridge. Pour off excess liquid. Add liquid vitamins a couple of drops like Selcon, Zoecon, etc. The mix stays good for several days in the fridge. My fish love it.

Have used this process for puffers, wrasses, anthias, etc. that are all usually called "copper sensitive." Have not lost a single fish. I think it's Jsker's smoothie idea tell you the truth that's making the difference, and of course @HotRocks awesome research on the Hanna. I and my fish owe both of these guys big time.

Hope this helps a bit. I just love my Blue Toby. Sad for you to lose two of them. Don't give up they are such cool fish.

 

[skr791346]

Can we compare notes on a few things?
20 gallon QT that has been fully cycled for over 35 days.
Aquaclear 50 HOB filter with BioMax ceramic media that has been soaking in my sump for 30+ days; foam filter pad soaked the same.
Dosed tank with Seachem Stability as directed on the bottle.
*** doing the two steps above, I've never seen ammonia test in the QT. Only change water about once a week.
Powerhead aimed up a surface for better O2 exchange
Dosed Copper Power in small amounts AM, lunch, PM over 5 days to reach therapeutic level
Fish came in at salinity of 0.019 from Live Aquaria. Kept it at 0.020 until the copper treatment was done.
Food: @jsker turned me on to making fish "smoothies" to give the fish a wide variety of proteins, fats, and vitamins. Several different frozen fish cubes one each: chopped clams, mysis, brine, cyclops, seaweed, reef mix, etc. Allow to "slump" in a tupperware in the fridge. Pour off excess liquid. Add liquid vitamins a couple of drops like Selcon, Zoecon, etc. The mix stays good for several days in the fridge. My fish love it.

Have used this process for puffers, wrasses, anthias, etc. that are all usually called "copper sensitive." Have not lost a single fish. I think it's Jsker's smoothie idea tell you the truth that's making the difference, and of course @HotRocks awesome research on the Hanna. I and my fish owe both of these guys big time.

Hope this helps a bit. I just love my Blue Toby. Sad for you to lose two of them. Don't give up they are such cool fish.

I agree, using copper has become so much easier since coming across @HotRocks hanna checker thread. I used to dread having to figure out those color charts.

90G QT, cycled with Dr.Tim's and sat fallow for about a month.
2 CerMedia Cermic Blocks in sump + filter floss
Monitored ammonia with Seachem Ammonia badge, no signs throughout QT
Powerhead & return for surface O2 exchange
Dosed Copper Power split into 2 doses (AM/PM) daily, for 7 days until 1.75ppm reached
Fish came in at SG 1.020, SG raised to 1.025 during acclimation over 30 minutes. (Ammolock added during drip)
Food: Fish Frenzy soaked in General Cure, Focus, Selcon and Garlic Guard for about 15 minutes, then RODI added to further thaw for another 15 minutes. They were going after food aggressively by Day 2.

Only major difference I see is the salinity. I'll keep it lower on my next quarantine.

Are they also sensitive to General Cure? Instead of copper, I'm also considering trying TTM and treating with General Cure or PraziPro after.

 

[Big G]

The dose of praziquantel in General Cure is 2.0 vs 2.5 in Prazipro. At 2.0 the job gets done just fine and some say it is easier on fish. Not sure if the the last part is true or not. The oxybispropanol used in Prazipro to keep the praziquantel in solution, uses some of the available O2 from the tank water column. So GC being a powder does not have oxybis and the associated problem.

 

[jsker]

Food: @jsker turned me on to making fish "smoothies" to give the fish a wide variety of proteins, fats, and vitamins. Several different frozen fish cubes one each: chopped clams, mysis, brine, cyclops, seaweed, reef mix, etc. Allow to "slump" in a tupperware in the fridge. Pour off excess liquid. Add liquid vitamins a couple of drops like Selcon, Zoecon, etc. The mix stays good for several days in the fridge. My fish love it.

Please ask away, Here is a article I wrote on how is prepare my food and I make the food link

 

[Big G]

Fish Frenzy soaked in General Cure,

This is one area where our methods differ. I use GC but after the copper has been removed from the tank and after 5-7 more days of observation for results from the copper treatment. Looking for sores, spots, etc. And I dose the GC directly into the water.