Trident ALK reading concern

[CSJIII]

I’m increasingly frustrated with my trident. Since January 5th, the day I installed new reagents my Alk level on the display jumped 0.9 dkh in 4 hours. It’s no longer close to what my Hannah checker. My trident is displaying an Alk level of 8.92 and my Hannah is showing 7.5. to what I have contacted support and they were very helpful and told me to split the difference but I simply can’t rely on that since I’m running the triton system and trying to keep stable. I’ve turned off my doser for fear of over dosing.

Does anyone else have any problems like this?

 

[TheHarold]

I’m increasingly frustrated with my trident. Since January 5th, the day I installed new reagents my Alk level on the display jumped 0.9 dkh in 4 hours. It’s no longer close to what my Hannah checker. My trident is displaying an Alk level of 8.92 and my Hannah is showing 7.5. to what I have contacted support and they were very helpful and told me to split the difference but I simply can’t rely on that since I’m running the triton system and trying to keep stable. I’ve turned off my doser for fear of over dosing.

Does anyone else have any problems like this?

When did you calibrate it?

 

[Mr4000]

I’m increasingly frustrated with my trident. Since January 5th, the day I installed new reagents my Alk level on the display jumped 0.9 dkh in 4 hours. It’s no longer close to what my Hannah checker. My trident is displaying an Alk level of 8.92 and my Hannah is showing 7.5. to what I have contacted support and they were very helpful and told me to split the difference but I simply can’t rely on that since I’m running the triton system and trying to keep stable. I’ve turned off my doser for fear of over dosing.

Does anyone else have any problems like this?

I had pretty much the same issue as your having mine was off by 1 to 1.5 dkh from my hanna checker. Neptune called me and said that they believe the trident was right. So i ordered a new hanna checker and it came out almost exactly what the trident was reading. The checker was probably a few years old and the reagent was new that i used. So possibly its your hanna checker, i would order a new one and try it.

 

[CSJIII]

I had pretty much the same issue as your having mine was off by 1 to 1.5 dkh from my hanna checker. Neptune called me and said that they believe the trident was right. So i ordered a new hanna checker and it came out almost exactly what the trident was reading. The checker was probably a few years old and the reagent was new that i used. So possibly its your hanna checker, i would order a new one and try it.

I’ve recalibrated it twice. Once a day after installing the new reagents since I saw the jump, and again 2 days ago.

My Hanna checker is less than 4 months old and the reagent is brand new. I stopped dosing my triton additives 3 days ago so I can get a line on what’s going on. My triton Alk level continues to rise, my Hanna checker indicates it’s falling. January 5th (the day this all started) my triton tested Alk at 7.5 and Hanna was 7.4. Fast forward to the test I just did after my trident tested. Trident indicates Alk at 9.08 and my Hanna says 7.1.

 

[TheHarold]

I’ve recalibrated it twice. Once a day after installing the new reagents since I saw the jump, and again 2 days ago.

My Hanna checker is less than 4 months old and the reagent is brand new. I stopped dosing my triton additives 3 days ago so I can get a line on what’s going on. My triton Alk level continues to rise, my Hanna checker indicates it’s falling. January 5th (the day this all started) my triton tested Alk at 7.5 and Hanna was 7.4. Fast forward to the test I just did after my trident tested. Trident indicates Alk at 9.08 and my Hanna says 7.1.

a good way to check the Hanna device is to use the surplus trident calibration solution. It has a known alkalinity, and will show you how off your checker is.

 

[CSJIII]

a good way to check the Hanna device is to use the surplus trident calibration solution. It has a known alkalinity, and will show you how off your checker is.

I’ve exhausted the calibration solution since I’ve recalibrated more than once.

 

[TheHarold]

I’ve exhausted the calibration solution since I’ve recalibrated more than once.

Ah okay. I had a similar concern; but Neptune systems was correct that my Hanna checker was reading low by about .7dkh.

 

[CSJIII]

Ah okay. I had a similar concern; but Neptune systems was correct that my Hanna checker was reading low by about .7dkh.

I’d love to believe my trident is right on but I haven’t changed my dosing schedule and before the jump my dosing was holing it steady in the mid 7’s. Haven’t added anything nor removed anything. My Hannah checker has been giving me stable Alk levels. I see your Hannah was .7 dkh difference, mine is now 2.0 dkh difference

 

[CSJIII]

So I realized I had some left over Alk reagent from before my replacement. I installed that, primed and tested. WOW! It went from 9.08 to now testing 7.33.

 

[45ZoaGarden]

Do you trust a $50 tester or a $600 tester? The Hanna checker has a .5 dkh margin of error. My Hanna checker is usually 1dkh off from the trident. It’s consistency, not the number itself that matters. You’re supposed to calibrate when the bottle is opened, not 3 days later as it can effect the actual numbers in the bottle. You’ve likely just messed the trident up being that it was fine before...

 

[CSJIII]

Do you trust a $50 tester or a $600 tester? The Hanna checker has a .5 dkh margin of error. My Hanna checker is usually 1dkh off from the trident. It’s consistency, not the number itself that matters. You’re supposed to calibrate when the bottle is opened, not 3 days later as it can effect the actual numbers in the bottle. You’ve likely just messed the trident up being that it was fine before...

So to break down your reply. I DID trust my $600 trident. And you’re right about consistency. In this case, my Hannah was consistent, my $600 trident was not. I did calibrate as soon as I replaced. So my assumption here is that the reagent is defective.

So I’ll ask this question of you, do you trust what your trident tells you regardless of what other tests tell you? If so, good luck!

 

[45ZoaGarden]

So to break down your reply. I DID trust my $600 trident. And you’re right about consistency. In this case, my Hannah was consistent, my $600 trident was not. I did calibrate as soon as I replaced. So my assumption here is that the reagent is defective.

So I’ll ask this question of you, do you trust what your trident tells you regardless of what other tests tell you? If so, good luck!

Yes, I’ve tested my trident in conjunction with an icp test. The trident was closer to the actual values than salifert AND the Hanna checkers

 

[TheHarold]

So to break down your reply. I DID trust my $600 trident. And you’re right about consistency. In this case, my Hannah was consistent, my $600 trident was not. I did calibrate as soon as I replaced. So my assumption here is that the reagent is defective.

So I’ll ask this question of you, do you trust what your trident tells you regardless of what other tests tell you? If so, good luck!

Calibrating right after replacing is not the correct procedure, and would explain the deviation.

 

[CSJIII]

Calibrating right after replacing is not the correct procedure, and would explain the deviation.

I guess I have to explain the process I followed. I installed the new reagents, primed and did 3 consecutive combined tests. This is the procedure that is indicated in the box of new reagents. I then waited 48 hours and calibrated. It is 100% of what Neptune tells me to do.

I then didn’t believe that after calibration my numbers jumped so significantly and were so different than what my Hannah checker was telling me which remained consistent. I then recalibrated so make sure things were correct. I believed the trident was correct so I turned off all dosing pumps and removed the tubing so that I knew for sure there was nothing going into my sump. After that I watched to make sure my numbers when down....they didn’t. The Alk continued to rise. So I again double checked for consistency when my $50 Hannah checker. The Hannah showed that my levels were in fact decreasing. I triple checked with a red Sea Alk testing kit. The Red Sea also showed me that the Alk was low 7’s. So that’s 2 testers showing me consistent 7.x and my trident showing me 9.08.

So what I’m reading is that I should trust my trident over consistency with my Hannah checker?

 

[robbyg]

Yes, I’ve tested my trident in conjunction with an icp test. The trident was closer to the actual values than salifert AND the Hanna checkers

You do realize there are videos out there that show ICP testing results vary a lot from company to company.


I think just because one persons Trident reads properly does not mean all of them will read properly. It's possible that his has an issue. Also money does not always equate to a more precise test kit reading. It does in some cases but in other cases the cheaper one can sometimes give better results.
The Trident is really nothing more than three Hanna type checkers hooked up a dosing pump. Your mostly paying for the automation, I would take Neptunes claims on accuracy with a grain of salt. If their Alk is really within +/- .05 DKH it's surprising that they have not posted some videos putting it up against some really expensive Lab Grade equipment. Kind of like MindStream did in their videos.

 

[45ZoaGarden]

You do realize there are videos out there that show ICP testing results vary a lot from company to company.


I think just because one persons Trident reads properly does not mean all of them will read properly. It's possible that his has an issue. Also money does not always equate to a more precise test kit reading. It does in some cases but in other cases the cheaper one can sometimes give better results.
The Trident is really nothing more than three Hanna type checkers hooked up a dosing pump. Your mostly paying for the automation, I would take Neptunes claims on accuracy with a grain of salt. If their Alk is really within +/- .05 DKH it's surprising that they have not posted some videos putting it up against some really expensive Lab Grade equipment. Kind of like MindStream did in their videos.

It was a triton labs test

 

[CSJIII]

I don’t doubt the accuracy of the unit itself. Upon installing my left over test part A which is Alk, I’m getting a result closer to what Hannah checker and Red Sea Alk test results are. I believe it’s a bad supply of reagent. I have a fresh supply of 6 month reagent delivered today and will install it and do the proper installation procedures.

 

[User1]

So I’ll ask this question of you, do you trust what your trident tells you regardless of what other tests tell you? If so, good luck!

I do, 100%. There is no reason not to all things considered. Every time I check my Trident with Hanna and even ATI's ICP results, numbers are all within their respected error of margin. To top it off I sent someone on this forum a PM asking how to use the left over calibration fluid with other test tools. They helped and manually testing with the hanna and left over reagents....Bob's your Uncle. Numbers again match.

I've had a few issues with my Trident that support has worked out with me. So far everything has been pretty good. One thing I noticed is that I have a dirty sump and I don't think that helps sometimes. I have a older Brightwell marine block and I placed it in a high flow area. So it seems to be falling apart. On the other side is the Trident's draw/sample line and it is causing some issues - the block.

In any case I think you got some good info here.

 

[User1]

You do realize there are videos out there that show ICP testing results vary a lot from company to company.


I think just because one persons Trident reads properly does not mean all of them will read properly. It's possible that his has an issue. Also money does not always equate to a more precise test kit reading. It does in some cases but in other cases the cheaper one can sometimes give better results.
The Trident is really nothing more than three Hanna type checkers hooked up a dosing pump. Your mostly paying for the automation, I would take Neptunes claims on accuracy with a grain of salt. If their Alk is really within +/- .05 DKH it's surprising that they have not posted some videos putting it up against some really expensive Lab Grade equipment. Kind of like MindStream did in their videos.

MS is out of business. Neptune is in business. Unless you have used a trident, and I know you are going with GHL (hope it works out for you), you should probably stop bashing it or saying things like taking results or claim of accuracy with a grain of salt. Unless you have first hand experience of using one.

You are 100% in price shouldn't indicate accuracy. Not sure I'd agree with one persons reading accurately not all of them will. They are calibrated and/or have some last minute checks at the factory before shipping out. Hobbyist calibrates after a few days because it will be installed differently and probably a few other things unknown to me. After using mine for a while now I do believe sample line location and the surrounding husbandry could come into play. Dirt, debris, micro bubbles, etc. Probes and discs may face similar issues but it sounded like MS used brushes or something I think you said - so there is that. Draw line won't have that obviously.

In any case - plenty of data on the web with regards to the Trident if someone is interesting in buying one. I will say though that out of all of the various automation testing solutions MS was the only one who didn't need or use calibration, reference fluid, or reagent...

Edit: Forgot to say you are spot on with regards to ICP tests. The one article by @Thales comes to mind - it is really good and the follow up discussion on it. See, we don't always disagree

 

[ca1ore]

FWIW, my hanna reads slightly more than 1 dkh higher than trident ... consistently so. I do have to replace the hanna reagent since it’s almost a year old, so perhaps the readings will converge a bit. Since both are within the acceptable rate I don’t really fuss about it. I do think it’s a good idea to occasionally validate trident with a second data point. Now, if hanna and trident differences were all over the place I’d be more curious.