Trident Calibration Question

[denverjon]

I switched out Reagents A, B, C this morning for the time and also calibrated it for the first time since the initial start up a couple months ago. I'm a little confused by the readings I got. Prior to the calibration, my readings were pretty much spot-on to my settings...8.75 alk, 450 calcium and 1250 mag. It calibrated fine this morning but when I ran the first test afterwards, it read 9.25 alk, 390 calcium and 1250 mag. I'm trying to understand why my alk and calcium readings would be so different after the calibration?

 

[SuncrestReef]

Calibration adjusts how the Trident interprets its readings. Prior to calibration, your Trident was artificially reporting lower alk than what you actually had, and now it's reporting closer to reality. Also, keep in mind the Trident's margin of error is +/- 0.05 dKH for alk, and +/- 15 ppm for cal & mag, so there will always be some fluctuations between readings.

What were you using to test your alk before the Trident? Did you try using that test kit to test the Trident's calibration solution to see how far off your other test kit is?

 

[denverjon]

Thanks for the feedback. I previously used Salifert but I didn't test the calibration solution with it today. I actually had a couple extra bottles of calibration solution so I calibrated the trident twice. The first test after each calibration produced similar readings.

 

[Mal11224]

I never really found the trident to be very accurate even after using the calibration fluid. A suggestion would be to test your parameters with trustworthy kits and use your tank water with those readings to calibrate your trident. That’s what I do and it works well. I mean… why can’t you use your tank water to calibrate?
Just a suggestion.

 

[xabo]

I never really found the trident to be very accurate even after using the calibration fluid. A suggestion would be to test your parameters with trustworthy kits and use your tank water with those readings to calibrate your trident. That’s what I do and it works well. I mean… why can’t you use your tank water to calibrate?
Just a suggestion.

This it what I've started doing. Seem to remember a member here who calibrates his Trident this way saying Neptune recommended this process to him.

 

[Gtinnel]

I also quit using the calibration solution and now just use my tank water. I've been much happier with it this way.

 

[areefer01]

why can’t you use your tank water to calibrate?

Question: Why can't you use your tank water to calibrate?

Answer: Because it is not a reference solution.

Longer answer: Un-opened calibration fluid has a "known" alk, ca, and mg number. The calibration task on the Apex will ask you to enter these values before it runs the tests. You can use manual test kits, the left over calibration fluid, and compare results to the trident if you want but should do so within 24 hours.

 

[xabo]

Question: Why can't you use your tank water to calibrate?

Answer: Because it is not a reference solution.

Longer answer: Un-opened calibration fluid has a "known" alk, ca, and mg number. The calibration task on the Apex will ask you to enter these values before it runs the tests. You can use manual test kits, the left over calibration fluid, and compare results to the trident if you want but should do so within 24 hours.

If I do this and the numbers either don't match or fall within the margin of error, where do I go from there?

 

[Gtinnel]

I opened a new calibration solution and tested multiple times with 2 seperate test kits and all tests matched (within reason), but didn't match the amount on the bottle. That is when I quit using it.

 

[Sean Clark]

Good luck...

 

[Mal11224]

Question: Why can't you use your tank water to calibrate?

Answer: Because it is not a reference solution.

Longer answer: Un-opened calibration fluid has a "known" alk, ca, and mg number. The calibration task on the Apex will ask you to enter these values before it runs the tests. You can use manual test kits, the left over calibration fluid, and compare results to the trident if you want but should do so within 24 hours.

If you test the calibration fluid and it is not correct, according to what is on the bottle, then it is not a sufficient reference solution. I use Hanna to check my trident and tests are pretty much the same.

 

[areefer01]

If I do this and the numbers either don't match or fall within the margin of error, where do I go from there?

I'm not sure I understand the question. Sorry.

I replied why you do not use the display's water for reference when calibrating the Trident. The provided calibration fluid is a "known" value and marked on the bottle. Once opened it should be used right way using the calibration task found in the Apex portal. You run through a series of steps one of which will ask you for the values on the bottle.

If you use the displays values via a manual test kit then those numbers are only as good as your manual test, titration, or auto tool like a bot or Hanna). I don't know about you but I've run back to back tests and my numbers are not the same although close. That is why that task exists and the bottles included.

Lastly don't chase numbers and pick a record of source. In my case I use the Trident. I do send off ATI ICP tests 2 or 3 times a year. When I do this I will grab a sample of water before the Trident runs, run phosphate, nitrate, and alk tests (hanna kits), then pull ATI's sample, and record everything down. Once ATI's results come back I can do a comparison. Each time I've done this the numbers are within their respected margin of error.

Not sure if this helps and apologies if not. About the only other thing that I do is set the calibration level as close as I can to the normal trident sample line. Outside of that I'm not sure other than I tend to trust the calibration more. If in doubt fire off a ticket later today to Neptune and see what they recommend if it is that far off.

Hope you are having a great day!

 

[Sean Clark]

Trident Calcium numbers are notorious for being way off. Alk is solid, but that is it. "Known values" should always match up and they do not even after calibration to the "known solution". Consistency is much more important than precision. Trident offers none of these.

 

[xabo]

I'm not sure I understand the question. Sorry.

I replied why you do not use the display's water for reference when calibrating the Trident. The provided calibration fluid is a "known" value and marked on the bottle. Once opened it should be used right way using the calibration task found in the Apex portal. You run through a series of steps one of which will ask you for the values on the bottle.

If you use the displays values via a manual test kit then those numbers are only as good as your manual test, titration, or auto tool like a bot or Hanna). I don't know about you but I've run back to back tests and my numbers are not the same although close. That is why that task exists and the bottles included.

Lastly don't chase numbers and pick a record of source. In my case I use the Trident. I do send off ATI ICP tests 2 or 3 times a year. When I do this I will grab a sample of water before the Trident runs, run phosphate, nitrate, and alk tests (hanna kits), then pull ATI's sample, and record everything down. Once ATI's results come back I can do a comparison. Each time I've done this the numbers are within their respected margin of error.

Not sure if this helps and apologies if not. About the only other thing that I do is set the calibration level as close as I can to the normal trident sample line. Outside of that I'm not sure other than I tend to trust the calibration more. If in doubt fire off a ticket later today to Neptune and see what they recommend if it is that far off.

Hope you are having a great day!

Will give it a try...................Thanks for detailed information.

 

[J1a]

I opened a new calibration solution and tested multiple times with 2 seperate test kits and all tests matched (within reason), but didn't match the amount on the bottle. That is when I quit using it.

There is always a possibility that both test kits are wrong.

 

[Gtinnel]

There is always a possibility that both test kits are wrong.

I agree there is, but there is also a chance that the amount listed on the calibration solution bottle is wrong. When multiple tests from two seperate test kits all match then it seems fairly unlikely they're both wrong by about the same amount. Besides even if they are all wrong, they are what I've used to set my tank to 8.5dkh so even if they're wrong at least using them to set my trident will keep my parameters where I've always kept them.

As we all know it's more about stability than the actual values anyway.

 

[Jon's Reef]

Trident Calcium numbers are notorious for being way off. Alk is solid, but that is it. "Known values" should always match up and they do not even after calibration to the "known solution". Consistency is much more important than precision. Trident offers none of these.

This is also my experience. Alk and Mag close. Ca consistently +50 to +100.

When I swap the 2 month kit, my Ca will be reading 440-450 consistent. Swap reagents, run 3 tests then calibrate. Ca will show 500ish. Check with Hanna... 440-450... just calibrate to the tank water.

I have tried digging deeper with checking reference solutions, multiple tests on multiple samples, ICP taken at the same time. I just come back to doing it this way.

 

[Coolcasino]

I gave up on the Neptune calibration solutions a long time ago. You can test with the water after you have done manual tests. The solutions are way off. They aren't even sealed, just a closed cap. Who knows if the values drift. When I use to use the calibration solution the trident wouldn't even end up with those numbers. They would be off... all 3. Calibrated with my water and at the end all the numbers matched.

 

[xabo]

Question: Why can't you use your tank water to calibrate?

Answer: Because it is not a reference solution.

Longer answer: Un-opened calibration fluid has a "known" alk, ca, and mg number. The calibration task on the Apex will ask you to enter these values before it runs the tests. You can use manual test kits, the left over calibration fluid, and compare results to the trident if you want but should do so within 24 hours.

Tried this...........just for fun......
Calibration Fluid Numbers:
Alk 8.55
Ca 475
Mg 1285

Calibration Fluid Tested w/Salifert:
Alk 9.3
Ca 400
Mg 1350

Trident Reading after calibration:
Alk 8.68
Ca 532
Mg 1548

Salifert Reading After calibration/Trident test:
Alk 9.6
Ca 500
Mg 1650

"The Trident tests consistently with a precision of +/- 0.05 dKh for Alkalinity and 15ppm for Calcium and Magnesium. Using any hobby-grade test kit on the market, even humans cannot perform the tests that consistently."