Trident Controlled Dosing Question

[JCOLE]

I have a DOS coming in tomorrow to setup 2-part dosing with my Trident. I am switching from Kalk and a CARX to help with better control of parameters.

I am going to set up my DOS to work with my Trident. My question is what will the DOS do if my Trident runs out of reagent, has an error, etc, and cannot perform a test? Will the DOS shut down or will it continue to dose on a normal dosing schedule?

 

[sharpimage]

It should fall back to the normal dosing schedule.

 

[rkpetersen]

I have a DOS coming in tomorrow to setup 2-part dosing with my Trident. I am switching from Kalk and a CARX to help with better control of parameters.

If it runs out of reagent or encounters an unexpected error, it stops operating and sends you a notification or text (assuming you have apex notifications set up).

If you set up control values for DOS, and the Trident then returns a number that's outside of your control range, it will stop adjusting dosing and fall back to the baseline schedule, as noted above. However, it won't automatically tell you that it's done so. To get out-of-range notifications, you need to specifically set triggers to notify of that situation.
For example, let's say you want to keep alk at 9.5, with a control range of 9.0 to 10.0. The two notification statements in your base_email output would look like:
If Alkx## < 9.00 Then ON
If Alkx## >10.00 Then ON
Alternatively, you can set up these notifications from the Inputs page.

 

[JCOLE]

If it runs out of reagent or encounters an unexpected error, it stops operating and sends you a notification or text (assuming you have apex notifications set up).

If you set up control values for DOS, and the Trident then returns a number that's outside of your control range, it will stop adjusting dosing and fall back to the baseline schedule, as noted above. However, it won't automatically tell you that it's done so. To get out-of-range notifications, you need to specifically set triggers to notify of that situation.
For example, let's say you want to keep alk at 9.5, with a control range of 9.0 to 10.0. The two notification statements in your base_email output would look like:
If Alkx## < 9.00 Then ON
If Alkx## >10.00 Then ON
Alternatively, you can set up these notifications from the Inputs page.

Ok thank you. Do you recommend using the task for Trident controlled dosing or setting it up manually?

 

[rkpetersen]

Ok thank you. Do you recommend using the task for Trident controlled dosing or setting it up manually?

It really depends on you. I do everything manually because I want to fully understand what my systems are doing.
However the tasks save time and effort for those with busier lives.

 

[JCOLE]

It really depends on you. I do everything manually because I want to fully understand what my systems are doing.
However the tasks save time and effort for those with busier lives.

I will play around with it. I did run the task for Trident Controlled dosing and set it up. However, I just went through my logs and I noticed that for the last 4 tests both the ALK and CAL are dosing at the same time. Is there a way to change this? I would like to interval dosing so they are not dosing together.

 

[robbyg]

I will play around with it. I did run the task for Trident Controlled dosing and set it up. However, I just went through my logs and I noticed that for the last 4 tests both the ALK and CAL are dosing at the same time. Is there a way to change this? I would like to interval dosing so they are not dosing together.

Following! Because It must have that ability.

 

[fuelman]

following i just ordered a apex/trident/dos package from brs i need to catch up on all this.

 

[rkpetersen]

I will play around with it. I did run the task for Trident Controlled dosing and set it up. However, I just went through my logs and I noticed that for the last 4 tests both the ALK and CAL are dosing at the same time. Is there a way to change this? I would like to interval dosing so they are not dosing together.

Unfortunately the Trident/DOS does not have the ability to adjust dosing timing so that alk and calcium are never dosed close together. This issue was brought up during Trident beta testing, but Neptune didn't address it directly at that time, other than to recommend placing your alk and calcium lines in different sump locations. However, there is one simple thing you can do which will help minimize this, and that is to offset the start time of the dosing interval for one of the lines by a few minutes. Below, I've offset the start time of calcium by 5 minutes.

 

[JCOLE]

Unfortunately the Trident/DOS does not have the ability to adjust dosing timing so that alk and calcium are never dosed close together. This issue was brought up during Trident beta testing, but Neptune didn't address it directly at that time, other than to recommend placing your alk and calcium lines in different sump locations. However, there is one simple thing you can do which will help minimize this, and that is to offset the start time of the dosing interval for one of the lines by a few minutes. Below, I've offset the start time of calcium by 5 minutes.

Cool. That is what I was thinking also. I will try that. Thank you!

 

[robbyg]

Unfortunately the Trident/DOS does not have the ability to adjust dosing timing so that alk and calcium are never dosed close together. This issue was brought up during Trident beta testing, but Neptune didn't address it directly at that time, other than to recommend placing your alk and calcium lines in different sump locations. However, there is one simple thing you can do which will help minimize this, and that is to offset the start time of the dosing interval for one of the lines by a few minutes. Below, I've offset the start time of calcium by 5 minutes.

That is really not acceptable, they should fix the issue.
I started to toy around with the Idea of buying a DOS and trying the Auto Dosing based on the Trident. For safety I would have to monitor it several times a day as my trust factor in auto dosing is low.
The inability to space out the doses makes this experiment much less appealing.

 

[JCOLE]

If it helps. I have only had the DOS up and running since Tuesday and I am loving it so far. Super easy to install and set up. My parameters are getting tighter by the day. I am confident after a couple of weeks and after increasing the dosing then my parameters will be within .5-10 of what I am shooting for.

This is my Trident reading from last week. This is almost a 1dKh swing throughout the day when I was dosing Kalk in my ATO, running a CARX, and manually dosing ALK to keep my levels up.

This is what it looks like since Tuesday since adding the DOS. I have my ALK set at 8 and my Calcium set at 420. I have been increasing my CAL slowly to get it to 420 and will play around with ALK a little more to see if I can get it tighter. I have it dosing more throughout the day than at night which that seems to be where I am dropping at. I am going to increase more at night to see if I can keep it there. However, this is looking really promising. About to pick up another DOS for aminos, etc.

Also, I did stagger the time by 6 minutes and they no longer dose together.

 

[robbyg]

What’s the maximum time you can stagger the doses?

 

[JCOLE]

What’s the maximum time you can stagger the doses?

I honestly dont know as I ran a task for Trident controlled dosing. I input what I want to keep my parameters at and how much ALK and Cal I dose a day. It programs the rest for you. You can go in the DOS layout and click on the already program intervals and it tells you how often it doses and how much. From there you can set the times.

Again, I am new to the DOS and I could be overlooking an easier step. It is honestly very easy to do and so far my levels are on point.

I set my ALK to 8 on Tuesday and it has been very close ever since. Ex - 12pm test today was 7.90, 6pm test was 7.94.

 

[dwest]

If it runs out of reagent or encounters an unexpected error, it stops operating and sends you a notification or text (assuming you have apex notifications set up).

If you set up control values for DOS, and the Trident then returns a number that's outside of your control range, it will stop adjusting dosing and fall back to the baseline schedule, as noted above. However, it won't automatically tell you that it's done so. To get out-of-range notifications, you need to specifically set triggers to notify of that situation.
For example, let's say you want to keep alk at 9.5, with a control range of 9.0 to 10.0. The two notification statements in your base_email output would look like:
If Alkx## < 9.00 Then ON
If Alkx## >10.00 Then ON
Alternatively, you can set up these notifications from the Inputs page.

Hi @rkpetersen. I'm thinking about trident. I’m sorry, but I’m just trying to understand your comments above.

I travel a lot. If I’m away and I run out of reagent or the trident has an error, it stops correct? It won’t fall back to a baseline schedule. That’s only for an out of range situation?

Am I right to believe I can only get about 6 weeks of reagent use as well, not 2 months. That last statement was based off of various threads.

Thank you.

 

[((FORDTECH))]

Yes seems like I only get 6 weeks

 

[dwest]

Yes seems like I only get 6 weeks

Thanks. And if you didn’t replace the reagent then, the trident would stop and send you an error? (If you set it up to send messages)

 

[((FORDTECH))]

Thanks. And if you didn’t replace the reagent then, the trident would stop and send you an error? (If you set it up to send messages)

No if I didn’t replace it at that point my cal and mag start to shoot up 100s throwing dos out of whack. At that point dos reverts back to my set value because trident is whacked out. So not that huge of a deal except 8 weeks is only 6 weeks

 

[((FORDTECH))]

I have beCome accustom to just replacing regents at 20% left due to this. I sure hope one day Neptune addresses this issue as it seems to be a common one

 

[rkpetersen]

Hi @rkpetersen. I'm thinking about trident. I’m sorry, but I’m just trying to understand your comments above.

I travel a lot. If I’m away and I run out of reagent or the trident has an error, it stops correct? It won’t fall back to a baseline schedule. That’s only for an out of range situation?

Am I right to believe I can only get about 6 weeks of reagent use as well, not 2 months. That last statement was based off of various threads.

Thank you.

You've got it right. If it runs out of reagent, or some other operational error, it can't continue operating and so just stops doing so, and DOS dosing returns to baseline amounts.

When reagents are nearly empty, some people experience test values that are off, which can be due to sediment at the bottom of the bottle getting drawn up, or some air bubbles getting drawn up instead of the full amount of reagent. A forum member, Brasileiro561, has designed and 3d printed a little stabilizing cone that fits snugly inside the cap of each reagent bottle, keeping the pipe vertical; this seems to help many get more accurate numbers toward the end of each bottle.

As far as duration, I've always assumed 2 months is a best case scenario. There are a number of circumstances where the Trident will use more than one 'dose' of each reagent per testing cycle. For example, if a value is far off the previous value, the Trident will automatically repeat it at least once to confirm. Also, if you do an extra calibration, this will use multiple doses of each reagent.