Trident - Hands on

[CoralBuddy]

I only recently started to dose ALK but recently added Ca to the mix. I'm using ESV 2-part (I don't think that matters) but was under the impression that we needed to delay the two by 5 minutes or so. This way the dosing unit lags one vs. the other to help prevent precipitation. Then I recall reading in the Neptune official forums that it doesn't matter with this unit because of the stepper mother (or whatever type it is) - it limits the risk of this happening.

And I think I also read you use a power head in the sump which is a great idea pointed at the drip destination. Something I am not doing.

I'm also dosing ESV Bionic, started the Trident Dosing thing today. Will take a look at my sump when I get home to see if there's any precipitation.

 

[finding paulo]

Here's my DOS sechedule that's been really stable for at least a month now:

I see that most of your alK and calcium are being dosedfrom 9am to 3pm. do you run into precipitation problems .. do you think it’s better to dose different times or just keep running the pump near where it dose?

 

[finding paulo]

Also this is like a top 10 thread

 

[SuncrestReef]

I see that most of your alK and calcium are being dosedfrom 9am to 3pm. do you run into precipitation problems .. do you think it’s better to dose different times or just keep running the pump near where it dose?

I use a small powerhead in my sump aimed at the dosing tubes so the 2-part gets dispersed right away without any precipitation problems. It works great.

PICO Evo-Mag Powerhead - 180 GPH USA

Small, high performance pump great for creating water movement in small aquariums and turtle tanks. Patented magnet-suction cup support makes position easy. The sphere joint and the flow control allow to direct water as necessary. PICO Evo-Mag 180 GPH, 4 Watts Small, high performance pump...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

 

[zbryant91]

I use a small powerhead in my sump aimed at the dosing tubes so the 2-part gets dispersed right away without any precipitation problems. It works great.

PICO Evo-Mag Powerhead - 180 GPH USA

Small, high performance pump great for creating water movement in small aquariums and turtle tanks. Patented magnet-suction cup support makes position easy. The sphere joint and the flow control allow to direct water as necessary. PICO Evo-Mag 180 GPH, 4 Watts Small, high performance pump...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

Do you have a photo of how you have the lines in the water? I've been battling precipitation on the lines as I have them a few inches above the waterline. Sounds like you keep them in the water?

 

[SuncrestReef]

Do you have a photo of how you have the lines in the water? I've been battling precipitation on the lines as I have them a few inches above the waterline. Sounds like you keep them in the water?

My dosing lines are about 1” above the sump waterline, and the powerhead is below them aiming straight up.

 

[zbryant91]

Thanks!

 

[MnFish1]

I’d be interested in eventually getting your input on precision versus accuracy. So, if it’s different than the manual tests is it always different by the same magnitude. I’d not, for example worry that T measured slightly low as long as it consistently does.

IN order to mesure 'accuracy' there needs to be a gold standard - what would that be in this case i.e. there is a reason that no company posts 'accuracy'. But all post precision.

 

[User1]

IN order to mesure 'accuracy' there needs to be a gold standard - what would that be in this case i.e. there is a reason that no company posts 'accuracy'. But all post precision.

I think you may be talking about semantics at this point. They are pretty clear and there is no gold standard in reef keeping. Thus the focus for some automation to focus on the Precision. Precision refers to how close two or more measurements are to each other.

Like I noted in another post ATI and Trident are close. Therefore I can surmise that the Trident is working as advertised in my configuration.

 

[MnFish1]

I think you may be talking about semantics at this point. They are pretty clear and there is no gold standard in reef keeping. Thus the focus for some automation to focus on the Precision. Precision refers to how close two or more measurements are to each other.

Like I noted in another post ATI and Trident are close. Therefore I can surmise that the Trident is working as advertised in my configuration.

The term gold standard refers to something against which a measurement is made. This is not a reefing concept its a science concept. There is definitely a gold standard for 'alkalinity' monitoring - for example. And - anything can be measured against that gold standard and the 'accuracy determined. Of course the average hobbyist may not have access to this (by definition) - but a company would. If you need to - perhaps google would help you see what I mean - its difficult for me to explain here

Another hobby grade piece of equipment is not a 'gold standard'

 

[ca1ore]

IN order to mesure 'accuracy' there needs to be a gold standard - what would that be in this case i.e. there is a reason that no company posts 'accuracy'. But all post precision.

Yes, understood. About a week after my original post I acquired a Trident. It measures about 1 dkh lower than the hanna I have on hand, and does so consistently. I’ve no idea which is correct, or if either are, but since the levels move as I’d expect them to throughout the day and my corals look fine I’m satisfied that the measurements are accurate enough.

 

[User1]

The term gold standard refers to something against which a measurement is made. This is not a reefing concept its a science concept. There is definitely a gold standard for 'alkalinity' monitoring - for example. And - anything can be measured against that gold standard and the 'accuracy determined. Of course the average hobbyist may not have access to this (by definition) - but a company would. If you need to - perhaps google would help you see what I mean - its difficult for me to explain here

Another hobby grade piece of equipment is not a 'gold standard'

It is all good and I'm familiar with it the term. However we will have to disagree with regards to alkalinity gold standard in this hobby. The reason for my opinion is because people, hobbyists, keep it anywhere between natural sea water which is 7 something and as high as 12. I agree with the precision camp because I don't want a high standard of deviation. I want my numbers to be consistent and close or...precise. In this case even if I do it wrong at it is close then I have something to go on. More importantly if I decided to let an automation test unit fine tune the dosing.

If everyone was using 8 as the gold standard maybe I'd say ok, I get it. But I don't see it. Then again I'll also admin I'm sort of looking at this black and white and maybe a bit too simplistic.

 

[MnFish1]

It is all good and I'm familiar with it the term. However we will have to disagree with regards to alkalinity gold standard in this hobby. The reason for my opinion is because people, hobbyists, keep it anywhere between natural sea water which is 7 something and as high as 12. I agree with the precision camp because I don't want a high standard of deviation. I want my numbers to be consistent and close or...precise. In this case even if I do it wrong at it is close then I have something to go on. More importantly if I decided to let an automation test unit fine tune the dosing.

If everyone was using 8 as the gold standard maybe I'd say ok, I get it. But I don't see it. Then again I'll also admin I'm sort of looking at this black and white and maybe a bit too simplistic.

You're not understanding what im saying - and this is not an argument. My comments relates to almost all of the companies out there that measure chemicals - they quote 'precision' not accuracy. There is no camp - about precision vs accuracy - they are 2 totally different concepts - right ?

Accuracy is 'how close to the 'true value' measured by a 'gold standard' is the value measured by a piece of equipment. Not sure what we're disagreeing about here. But many manufacturers discus not their accuracy - only their precision.

 

[HMpops]

I see that most of your alK and calcium are being dosedfrom 9am to 3pm. do you run into precipitation problems .. do you think it’s better to dose different times or just keep running the pump near where it dose?

Haven't finished reading all the post in this thread...so if your question's been answered, I apologize. The timing is set to your light schedule, as that is when coral intake is at its highest. Using the Apex Trident task feature, you're given the option of using suggested Day/night doing ratios. These can be adjusted as needed. Really does help flatten out peaks and valleys throughout the day.

 

[destro]

@SuncrestReef

This is impressive. Do you think this would apply to smaller water volume with consumption values far less?

For example, my daily alk consumption is about 2.5ml to maintain 8.2.

My Trident measurements are Alk 8.23|Ca 432|Mg1307 currently.

I plan to run the Trident Controlled Dosing task soon, since the measurements have been consistent and my baseline known.

(BTW Thanks for replying to my thread on Neptune Community forum)

 

[HMpops]

I've used this thread over the past month and thanks for everyone's input. Especially @SuncrestReef for sharing your ride. As I reach the end of my first month using the Trident, I wanted to share my 'results' over the past 24hours (roughly). I'm very happy, so far. Not happy I can't find 6 month supply of reagent anywhere...

Just wanted to pass on...as I've been dialing in my Trident over my first month. I'm now near the end of my first reagent batch and wanted to share my results, as of today. Although I have 2 DOS and am ready to supplement Magnesium, I haven't needed to yet. Its turned off. I'd say that's pretty stable.

Day Time ALK
Wed Dec 11 18:00 9.01
20:00 8.99
22:00 8.98
Thu Dec 12 00:00 8.96
02:00 8.93
04:00 8.89
06:00 8.89
08:00 8.87
09:00 8.89
10:00 8.85
11:00 8.88
12:00 8.85
13:00 8.90
14:00 8.91
15:00 8.96
16:00 8.96
17:00 8.99
18:00 8.97

Goal 9.00
Average 8.93
Min 8.85
Max 9.01
Diff in 24 hours >2%

Calcium
Wed Dec 11 22:00 433

Thu Dec 12 00:00 451
04:00 439
08:00 447
10:00 451
12:00 440
14:00 434
16:00 433
18:00 434

Goal 450
Average 440
Min 433
Max 451
Diff in 24 hours 4%

 

[SuncrestReef]

I've used this thread over the past month and thanks for everyone's input. Especially @SuncrestReef for sharing your ride. As I reach the end of my first month using the Trident, I wanted to share my 'results' over the past 24hours (roughly). I'm very happy, so far. Not happy I can't find 6 month supply of reagent anywhere...

Just wanted to pass on...as I've been dialing in my Trident over my first month. I'm now near the end of my first reagent batch and wanted to share my results, as of today. Although I have 2 DOS and am ready to supplement Magnesium, I haven't needed to yet. Its turned off. I'd say that's pretty stable.

Day Time ALK
Wed Dec 11 18:00 9.01
20:00 8.99
22:00 8.98
Thu Dec 12 00:00 8.96
02:00 8.93
04:00 8.89
06:00 8.89
08:00 8.87
09:00 8.89
10:00 8.85
11:00 8.88
12:00 8.85
13:00 8.90
14:00 8.91
15:00 8.96
16:00 8.96
17:00 8.99
18:00 8.97

Goal 9.00
Average 8.93
Min 8.85
Max 9.01
Diff in 24 hours >2%

Calcium
Wed Dec 11 22:00 433

Thu Dec 12 00:00 451
04:00 439
08:00 447
10:00 451
12:00 440
14:00 434
16:00 433
18:00 434

Goal 450
Average 440
Min 433
Max 451
Diff in 24 hours 4%

Nice and stable! Good job. Would you mind sharing screenshot of your dosing schedule?

 

[MnFish1]

I've used this thread over the past month and thanks for everyone's input. Especially @SuncrestReef for sharing your ride. As I reach the end of my first month using the Trident, I wanted to share my 'results' over the past 24hours (roughly). I'm very happy, so far. Not happy I can't find 6 month supply of reagent anywhere...

Just wanted to pass on...as I've been dialing in my Trident over my first month. I'm now near the end of my first reagent batch and wanted to share my results, as of today. Although I have 2 DOS and am ready to supplement Magnesium, I haven't needed to yet. Its turned off. I'd say that's pretty stable.

Day Time ALK
Wed Dec 11 18:00 9.01
20:00 8.99
22:00 8.98
Thu Dec 12 00:00 8.96
02:00 8.93
04:00 8.89
06:00 8.89
08:00 8.87
09:00 8.89
10:00 8.85
11:00 8.88
12:00 8.85
13:00 8.90
14:00 8.91
15:00 8.96
16:00 8.96
17:00 8.99
18:00 8.97

Goal 9.00
Average 8.93
Min 8.85
Max 9.01
Diff in 24 hours >2%

Calcium
Wed Dec 11 22:00 433

Thu Dec 12 00:00 451
04:00 439
08:00 447
10:00 451
12:00 440
14:00 434
16:00 433
18:00 434

Goal 450
Average 440
Min 433
Max 451
Diff in 24 hours 4%

im curious - why would you have assumed anything else? Why would your alk swing - without a water change - or something else 'bad' that you would have known about? But it was nice to see your expected numbers

 

[HMpops]

Nice and stable! Good job. Would you mind sharing screenshot of your dosing schedule?

Thanks!
BTW, 150DT & Eshopps 300 sump w/ refugium. I've been slowly converting my mixed reef system to SPS dominant. 4 XL Colonies, 10 med colonies and 20 Acro frags. Along with several 100 (possibly 1000's of LPS heads.) Fully stock system

 

[SuncrestReef]

im curious - why would you have assumed anything else? Why would your alk swing - without a water change - or something else 'bad' that you would have known about? But it was nice to see your expected numbers

Actually, you do get swings throughout the day even without water changes or something 'bad' happening. It's due to higher consumption by corals when the lights are on vs off, in particular when the lighting is at peak levels. If you go back to the beginning of this thread, you can see my Trident readings when I was just dosing a standard amount throughout the day. The Trident shows up and down swings that correlate with the lighting schedule. After turning on Trident Controlled Dosing and adjusting my dosing schedule to increase the amount during the day, the swings reduced substantially. Here's one of those graphs: