Trident Reading Low Alk

[((FORDTECH))]

How long does that process take and what do you clean it with?

Takes me less then 10 min because my cover is already off and tape is removed from the cap. I use a q tip making sure not to leave any small strands of cotton in the vial.

 

[Gatorpa]

Takes me less then 10 min because my cover is already off and tape is removed from the cap. I use a q tip making sure not to leave any small strands of cotton in the vial.

Do you see much residue when you do it?

 

[((FORDTECH))]

Do you see much residue when you do it?

Well yea I do it cause the glass is cloudy and when done it’s clear and q tip is black

 

[Charlie the Reefer]

FYI all - brand new trident testing ~1 DKH lower than Hannah for about a week now. Sounds like same problem I’m gonna screw with the calibration.

 

[Eagle78]

Hi, on hanna 8.8 dkh, trident 8.3 dkh. did juste 1 hanna test for now, will make more test to confirm the 0.6 difference.

 

[Eagle78]

Hi, on hanna 8.8 dkh, trident 8.3 dkh. did juste 1 hanna test for now, will make more test to confirm the 0.6 difference.

0.5 difference

 

[14 foot reef]

Hi, on hanna 8.8 dkh, trident 8.3 dkh. did juste 1 hanna test for now, will make more test to confirm the 0.6 difference.

Isn't that very close to the =/- accuracy of the Hanna tester

Hanna Instruments HI755 advertises accuracy @ 25°C/77°F is ±5 ppm (mg/L) or ±5% of reading,

 

[Eagle78]

Isn't that very close to the =/- accuracy of the Hanna tester

Hanna Instruments HI755 advertises accuracy @ 25°C/77°F is ±5 ppm (mg/L) or ±5% of reading,

Well 5% error on 8.8 dkh is 0.44. The reading 8.3 dkh on trident is close low end gap. Will make more test I hope the number will be more close but if is always 0.5 dkh difference, I can live with that.

How often you guys do the calibration on trident?

 

[OfficeReefer]

And I agree with this sentiment. Im just trying to make sure im not doing something wrong.
I may do what you suggested in your last post and calibrate off of the Hanna instead.

^^^ This method is the most accurate I have had over the past three years. The calibration solution only worked once or so in the beginning if I recall. Now, I calibrate against the Hanna readings using a six month supply and use those numbers, not what is on the labels.

 

[OfficeReefer]

And I know you don’t wanna hear it but what most of us Trident users are looking for is consistency not the actual number if it says 7.5 for a week straight even though Hannah says eight.5 either way it’s consistently 7.5 or 8.5 meaning stable

I too want stability but I also need numbers to be more accurate. Otherwise the alerting and adjustments with DOS could be deadly. In fact, I gave up on using the DOS with the Trident because of this issue. Now I manually do them and calibrate against the Hanna numbers tested from the sample.

This was the best I could achieve and was typically only 0.2-0.4 ppm lower than the Hanna.

 

[Eagle78]

I too want stability but I also need numbers to be more accurate. Otherwise the alerting and adjustments with DOS could be deadly. In fact, I gave up on using the DOS with the Trident because of this issue. Now I manually do them and calibrate against the Hanna numbers tested from the sample.

This was the best I could achieve and was typically only 0.2-0.4 ppm lower than the Hanna.

Yeah I aprouve it could be deadly programming DOS and Trident. On my system, I ajuste manually my Redsee doser. But now the gap between my trident and Hanna it's not only 0.5 dkh for alk. It is more between 0.5 and 0.9 dkh. I will try you calibration way for more accuracy. Thank

 

[areefer01]

Yeah I aprouve it could be deadly programming DOS and Trident. On my system, I ajuste manually my Redsee doser. But now the gap between my trident and Hanna it's not only 0.5 dkh for alk. It is more between 0.5 and 0.9 dkh. I will try you calibration way for more accuracy. Thank

How can the Trident assisted dosing be deadly? As long as you have your dosing numbers setup properly there is only so much influence over the dosing volume the Trident has. The documentation on assisted dosing is actually very good and covers this should one be interested.

Also someone asked when to run calibration. 48 to 72 hours after doing a reagent swap. Typically I only do this when I'm replacing them all or after a B and C replacement. I keep a bottle of Fauna Marin multi reference solution on hand to do spot checks should a back to back test fall out of my trending.

Goes without saying as already noted by 14 foot there is a different method of testing, and results, across both automated and manual testing. To include how manufactures report margin of error and under what condition. Furthermore the Trident is drawing from a known location and temperature that isn't the same as your manual collection for test sample (not to mention time). Chasing numbers across kits is only going to wear one out.

 

[Eagle78]

How can the Trident assisted dosing be deadly?

If you programme your DOS with the Trident result. Exemple dose more KH if your trident result are low. I don't do that. Only what I thing

 

[Eagle78]

Also someone asked when to run calibration. 48 to 72 hours after doing a reagent swap. Typically I only do this when I'm replacing them all or after a B and C replacement.

Same here. But I use trident calibration solution and I also manually test calibration solution after.

 

[Gophish1982]

I’ve had the exact same issue.
Didn’t bother to call Neptune.

my trident seems to run 1.0 lower dkh compared to salient.
When I tried to cal to tank water and input values it will cal to those values but then measured 2.5 DKH lower.

Changed out the reagent a and did another cal with new cal solution and now I’m back to a 1.0 DkH difference. living with it for now but have ABC reagents on order and will use their cal solution

Did you ever try with the ABC reagents? I ordered some but then also spoke with Neptune and they sent me a new trident. I haven’t switched units out yet because I had just started a new batch of reagent and about to go on vacation. I was thinking about giving the new unit a try, but I am pretty sure I’m just going to have the same issue because it’s probably a manufacturing issue. I have like a 6 month supply still, but I’m willing to switch over to the ABC and sell my extra reagents for cheap if the ABC can get me an accurate reading.

 

[Gatorpa]

Did you ever try with the ABC reagents? I ordered some but then also spoke with Neptune and they sent me a new trident. I haven’t switched units out yet because I had just started a new batch of reagent and about to go on vacation. I was thinking about giving the new unit a try, but I am pretty sure I’m just going to have the same issue because it’s probably a manufacturing issue. I have like a 6 month supply still, but I’m willing to switch over to the ABC and sell my extra reagents for cheap if the ABC can get me an accurate reading.

I did switch to ABC about 3 months ago or so, calibration seems more stable as do the test runs.

Equal or better at worse and 1/3 of the price.

I also did an ICP, a manual (salifert) DKH and ran a trident test. The trident was spot on, now I just go with the trident unless something changes suddenly with no reason.

 

[Lion6]

What worked for us:

We were getting a 1.5 dKH lower value on trident than our Hanna alkalinity tester.

The trident was so low that it did not seem believable.

We could not get the Trident to calibrate so it would agree with the Hanna alkalinity tester. When we attempted to calibrate the trident upwards 1.5 dKH using tank water, it seemed to work until the next scheduled test. At the next regularly scheduled test the trident would revert to the values it reported before we had calibrated it.

I SUSPECTED that Trident is programmed to prevented making a large calibration.

I SUSPECTED that if you calibrate more than 1.0 DKH it assumes error and reverts to the last calibration performed with Neptune calibration fluid.

I tried to think of a workaround.

I decided to try to perform a tank water calibration in many different steps. Each time, I only calibrated a portion of the total desired calibration.

It worked and held the values UNTIL I had changed it a total of about 1.0 dKH. After the total of all my calibrations exceeded this 1.0 dKH level, it seemed to throw out all the calibrations and go back to the values it was reporting before I tried to do anything. Back to square one.

Next, I suspected that maybe something else was the cause. The trident comes with a part they call “optional trident sample line filter”. This is a tiny filter about the size of a dime that goes on the end of the sample uptake line that is in your sump. They tell you to use it if you have turbid water and want to keep debris out of the sample line. From the very beginning, we used it because we felt it was good to keep debris out of the trident. I decided that maybe this filter was altering the test results of the trident. I thought maybe the trident had been factory calibrated without this filter attached and maybe adding it could have affected the Trident results. We had never calibrated using anything except tank water before.

I decided that we should calibrate trident using Neptune fluid and WITH THE FILTER IN PLACE.

We performed the calibration with the Neptune fluid and filter attached. Afterwards, the trident was reading only 0.5 dKH less than the Hanna tester. Much closer.

We then performed a ATI-ICP-OES test and the result from ATI matched up very closely with the trident and also was 0.5 DKH lower than Hanna.

Here is my conclusion:

If you are running the “optional trident sample line filter”, try performing a calibration using Neptune fluid with the optional sample line filter in place.

I believe you’ll end up having trident values about 0.5 dKH less than your Hanna alkalinity tester.

I felt that 0.5 difference between Trident and Hanna was a reasonable amount. Since ATI agreed more closely with the trident after calibrating with the filter attached, I now trust the trident and believe the Hanna to be 0.5 dKH high. Regular testing with the Hanna remains consistently 0.5 higher than the trident.

I sincerely hope this can help some of you struggling with large differences between Trident and Hanna for alkalinity. It worked for us.

 

[Gophish1982]

What worked for us:

We were getting a 1.5 dKH lower value on trident than our Hanna alkalinity tester.

The trident was so low that it did not seem believable.

We could not get the Trident to calibrate so it would agree with the Hanna alkalinity tester. When we attempted to calibrate the trident upwards 1.5 dKH using tank water, it seemed to work until the next scheduled test. At the next regularly scheduled test the trident would revert to the values it reported before we had calibrated it.

I SUSPECTED that Trident is programmed to prevented making a large calibration.

I SUSPECTED that if you calibrate more than 1.0 DKH it assumes error and reverts to the last calibration performed with Neptune calibration fluid.

I tried to think of a workaround.

I decided to try to perform a tank water calibration in many different steps. Each time, I only calibrated a portion of the total desired calibration.

It worked and held the values UNTIL I had changed it a total of about 1.0 dKH. After the total of all my calibrations exceeded this 1.0 dKH level, it seemed to throw out all the calibrations and go back to the values it was reporting before I tried to do anything. Back to square one.

Next, I suspected that maybe something else was the cause. The trident comes with a part they call “optional trident sample line filter”. This is a tiny filter about the size of a dime that goes on the end of the sample uptake line that is in your sump. They tell you to use it if you have turbid water and want to keep debris out of the sample line. From the very beginning, we used it because we felt it was good to keep debris out of the trident. I decided that maybe this filter was altering the test results of the trident. I thought maybe the trident had been factory calibrated without this filter attached and maybe adding it could have affected the Trident results. We had never calibrated using anything except tank water before.

I decided that we should calibrate trident using Neptune fluid and WITH THE FILTER IN PLACE.

We performed the calibration with the Neptune fluid and filter attached. Afterwards, the trident was reading only 0.5 dKH less than the Hanna tester. Much closer.

We then performed a ATI-ICP-OES test and the result from ATI matched up very closely with the trident and also was 0.5 DKH lower than Hanna.

Here is my conclusion:

If you are running the “optional trident sample line filter”, try performing a calibration using Neptune fluid with the optional sample line filter in place.

I believe you’ll end up having trident values about 0.5 dKH less than your Hanna alkalinity tester.

I felt that 0.5 difference between Trident and Hanna was a reasonable amount. Since ATI agreed more closely with the trident after calibrating with the filter attached, I now trust the trident and believe the Hanna to be 0.5 dKH high. Regular testing with the Hanna remains consistently 0.5 higher than the trident.

I sincerely hope this can help some of you struggling with large differences between Trident and Hanna for alkalinity. It worked for us.

Neptune told me there is a point that the trident won’t accept a calibration where your input is too far from what the machine thinks it should be. They couldn’t tell me what that number was, but it has to be pretty small because when I try to calibrate with my tank water and results from my manual tests or Fauna Marin’s calibration solution it always returns a number 1.5 below what I input for my results.
When I calibrate with Neptune’s solution it always holds the number from the bottle, but when I test that same solution out of the 3 batches I’ve had so far they read .85, .65, and .6 higher then my manual tests. I’ve tested the solution with Hanna, salifert, and LaMotte at the same time and they were all the same with one being off by .1 from the others.
I’ve also tried first testing the calibration fluid, then inputting the numbers from my manual tests and I still get the next test reading 1.5 lower then those results.
When I test Fauna Marin solution with all my other manual tests, they all read spot on or .1 off.
I can’t speak to the filter suggestion because I’ve always had it on whether I was calibrating with tank water, Neptune solution, or Fauna Marin.
I’m going to set up the replacement trident they sent me and try out the ABC reagents and see how those go. If it won’t get it close to my manual tests I’ll start messing with the numbers I input to see just how close I can get it.

 

[ddc0715]

so i have a collection of these neptune trident calibration fluid bottles about 9 of them. they are un opened. i was wonbering if i should toss them. i dont use them that much, cause i check the trident with my hanas and red sea kits every time i test my wifes tank. i used one last night,

but keep getting a no sample error and soaked the hose in citric acid, massaged it well and blowing it out, i still got this no sample error.
finally i just restarted it before going to bed at 11pm, left the hose in the neptune trident calibration fluid. it was suppose to be 8.30, 440 and 1345 water....i woke to these numbers tested at midnight..

i have manually tested and they are false.....

so again i let the trident run in the calibration solution but im unsure how old the un opened bottle i chose was..... do unused neptune trident calibration fluid bottles go bad even if un opened? i ran a caliration just now to see it i get what the label says heres what i got .

cal fluid says 8.30-- cal results once finished 7.55
cal fluid says 440--cal results once finished 328
cal fluid says 1345--cal results once finished 973

.

i see alot of the same problem here but not to many rock solid answers.. has anyone nailed down this problem and its cause beyound speculation? thanks

 

[JCOLE]

Either there are a bunch of bad Hanna alk reagents testing 1.5dkh higher or something is going on with the Trident. I have seen so many, including myself, over the last 6 months have this same issue.

Personally, I believe it is something firmware/software related but hasnt been figured/addressed yet.

I wish there was a way to adjust the calibration in programming.