Trident vs Alkatronic vs KH Director vs kh guardian

[ACF930]

Did you recalibrate it? From what I read (from Neptune) - you shoudl be calibrating (verifying) the trident with the calibration routine - not a Salifert (or other) test kit.

Yes I re-calibrated twice after replacing reagent A.

 

[CDavmd]

Was the calibration fluid new? I calibrate after changing all three reagents not when at the halfway point changing only A.

I’d also make sure the tubing is seated well and not taking in air. Otherwise contact Neptune support.

 

[ACF930]

Was the calibration fluid new? I calibrate after changing all three reagents not when at the halfway point changing only A.

I’d also make sure the tubing is seated well and not taking in air. Otherwise contact Neptune support.

Yes the calibration fluid was new. I did re-calibrate at the halfway point (after replacing only Reagent A) but does that make a difference?

I could change all the reagents and open a new Reagent kit and re-calibrate using that batch, but seems like a waste of my current reagents.

 

[MnFish1]

Yes the calibration fluid was new. I did re-calibrate at the halfway point (after replacing only Reagent A) but does that make a difference?

I could change all the reagents and open a new Reagent kit and re-calibrate using that batch, but seems like a waste of my current reagents.

Curious - are you supposed to replace all of the reagents at the same time? Only asking because how did you recalibrate (ie. have extra calibration fluid) to do in the middle?

 

[ACF930]

Curious - are you supposed to replace all of the reagents at the same time? Only asking because how did you recalibrate (ie. have extra calibration fluid) to do in the middle?

I did not calibrate when I first got the Trident (about a month ago). Instead, I calibrated for the first time after changing Reagent A. I follow the steps in the app’s tutorial. After the first calibration, the Trident readings appeared out of whack, so about 4 hrs later, I re-calibrated again using the same solution. Still, the numbers looked off compared to past month’s readings, but they are still close to the initial readings that I got after the first calibration.

Now, I’m not sure which readings were more accurate (before changing reagent A and calibration or after).

However, compared to Salifert, Alk and CA still are pretty different.

I’m going to run a ICP test. That should tell me the true readings.

 

[MnFish1]

I did not calibrate when I first got the Trident (about a month ago). Instead, I calibrated for the first time after changing Reagent A. I follow the steps in the app’s tutorial. After the first calibration, the Trident readings appeared out of whack, so about 4 hrs later, I re-calibrated again using the same solution. Still, the numbers looked off compared to past month’s readings, but they are still close to the initial readings that I got after the first calibration.

Now, I’m not sure which readings were more accurate (before changing reagent A and calibration or after).

However, compared to Salifert, Alk and CA still are pretty different.

I’m going to run a ICP test. That should tell me the true readings.

Unfortunately, ICP tests don't test alkalinity (and the ones that 'say they do' - are just doing a similar test to what you're doing at home).

I dont think you can compare the non-calibrated results from last month to the new values. Instead you should (assuming you did everything correctly) - believe the new results. Just wondering - aren't you supposed to change all of the reagents at the same time every 2 months? (or were you testing more/less than recommended?)

 

[ACF930]

Unfortunately, ICP tests don't test alkalinity (and the ones that 'say they do' - are just doing a similar test to what you're doing at home).

I dont think you can compare the non-calibrated results from last month to the new values. Instead you should (assuming you did everything correctly) - believe the new results. Just wondering - aren't you supposed to change all of the reagents at the same time every 2 months? (or were you testing more/less than recommended?)

I’m at the halfway point after using Trident for a month and testing 4x per day. As a result, I only changed Reagent A. Then I calibrated twice for the first time.

A month ago, my Salifert was about 9.0 dkh and Trident tested about 8.5 dkh, so I decided not to calibrate.

Good to know about the ICP test and Alk.

I’m at a lost now. I’d like to trust the readings (after recent calibration), but Alk and CA are pretty different still compared to Salifert. Plus, this whole whacky readings after calibration made me question the Trident accuracy.

I was also thinking about getting Hanna checkers for Alk and CA, but hesitant to throw extra $$ at this especially after spending $600 on Trident, which should be pretty accurate allegedly.

On a positive note, the Trident has still been very helpful in monitoring trends. The readings (from each test) have been pretty close, so at least I know if/when swings occur.

 

[CDavmd]

I think one should calibrate at the beginning. Neptune recommences this after the first few days. By not calibrating when you first got it, your values may not be accurate. Now that you have calibrated, you may finally be getting the actual correct numbers.

 

[ACF930]

I think one should calibrate at the beginning. Neptune recommences this after the first few days. By not calibrating when you first got it, your values may not be accurate. Now that you have calibrated, you may finally be getting the actual correct numbers.

Yes I am hoping that’s the case, but then why are Alk and CA (and even Mag) still pretty different than Salifert?

I guess I’ll purchase testing kits from Red Sea and/or Hanna and gather more data.

 

[User1]

Did you recalibrate it? From what I read (from Neptune) - you shoudl be calibrating (verifying) the trident with the calibration routine - not a Salifert (or other) test kit.

That is my understanding as well. The regents come with calibration for this reason.

What happens is people also use those to check some of their manual test kits if there is any left over and they have time before they expire.

 

[MnFish1]

I think you’re making a mistake. You should start fresh. Pretend you just got your trident and use it/calibrate it just as the instructions suggest. Then Use the instrument that you spent a lot of money instead of trying to make sure it’s accurate with tests that should be less accuRate and less precise.

Yes I am hoping that’s the case, but then why are Alk and CA (and even Mag) still pretty different than Salifert?

I guess I’ll purchase testing kits from Red Sea and/or Hanna and gather more data.

 

[ACF930]

I think you’re making a mistake. You should start fresh. Pretend you just got your trident and use it/calibrate it just as the instructions suggest. Then Use the instrument that you spent a lot of money instead of trying to make sure it’s accurate with tests that should be less accuRate and less precise.

Ok here’s my plan. I’m going to use up the remaining reagents over the next 20 days (they are still useful to see trends).

On the next Reagent batch, I will re-calibrate (using the solution with that batch) per Neptune’s instructions to the T.

I’m still going to purchase other brands test kits. On the next set of reagents, I will conduct rounds of testing with different kits to compare accuracy.

If the Trident is still off, then I’ll contact support and try to fix else ditch it for an Alkatronic or Reefbot.

 

[vangvace]

Sounds like a good plan. The Trident should match the calibration solution and the brand test kits should have a margin of error. You could also get a separate reference solution to check against all of them as well, but I don't know of a Big 3 solution. Perhaps @Randy Holmes-Farley could chime in on if such products are available.

 

[CDavmd]

Ok here’s my plan. I’m going to use up the remaining reagents over the next 20 days (they are still useful to see trends).

On the next Reagent batch, I will re-calibrate (using the solution with that batch) per Neptune’s instructions to the T.

I’m still going to purchase other brands test kits. On the next set of reagents, I will conduct rounds of testing with different kits to compare accuracy.

If the Trident is still off, then I’ll contact support and try to fix else ditch it for an Alkatronic or Reefbot.

The problem with this is that you are assuming that the other test kits are more accurate than the Trident. Neptune has given the accuracy and precision of the Trident when released. It is a much narrower margin than any other test kit or Hanna.

I used Hanna for years, alone with red sea and salifert. The results can be highly variable. In particular, the Hanna Calcium checker can be all over the place. I will preface this with stating that I have a degree in Biochemistry and did significant bench research. I know how to replicate results and perform chemical assays carefully and in a repeatable fashion and despite my using lab grade syringes, and better micropipette's I could not get the Hanna Calcium checker to give repeatable results. Yes they were close but never tight. Similarly, using red sea you are performing a classic titration and looking for a color change. It gets you in the ballpark and is reasonably accurate but not perfect.

When I received my first Trident, I ran it for a few days, then calibrated. I ran my other test kits on the calibration solution immediately afterward to compare to the trident and they were off. Even my Hanna alkalinity checker although close was off by an entire dkH.

So I would not compare the trident results to the results of other test kits in order to determine if the trident is accurate. That assumes the other test kits are superior which they are not.

I think your issue is that you did not calibrate initially. You asked in an earlier post why the Ca and Mg were ok....remember these are three different titration tests with three different reagents. The Ca and Mg have a wider margin of error than the Alkalinity. During shipping you do not know the effects of heat, motion, jarring , etc might have on the mechanism. Something could have happened that affected only the Alkalinity test which has a much tighter margin of error. Hence why Neptune recommends calibrating after a few days of use.

I have two tridents, one on my main system and another on my frag system. They have been working perfectly and providing very consistent results. I have calibrated with each 3 reagent change episode. I have it controlling my DOS additions of ATI essentials PRO. The stability I have achieved is far better than anything I was able to achieve in the past.

Happy Reefing!

 

[ACF930]

The problem with this is that you are assuming that the other test kits are more accurate than the Trident. Neptune has given the accuracy and precision of the Trident when released. It is a much narrower margin than any other test kit or Hanna.

I used Hanna for years, alone with red sea and salifert. The results can be highly variable. In particular, the Hanna Calcium checker can be all over the place. I will preface this with stating that I have a degree in Biochemistry and did significant bench research. I know how to replicate results and perform chemical assays carefully and in a repeatable fashion and despite my using lab grade syringes, and better micropipette's I could not get the Hanna Calcium checker to give repeatable results. Yes they were close but never tight. Similarly, using red sea you are performing a classic titration and looking for a color change. It gets you in the ballpark and is reasonably accurate but not perfect.

When I received my first Trident, I ran it for a few days, then calibrated. I ran my other test kits on the calibration solution immediately afterward to compare to the trident and they were off. Even my Hanna alkalinity checker although close was off by an entire dkH.

So I would not compare the trident results to the results of other test kits in order to determine if the trident is accurate. That assumes the other test kits are superior which they are not.

I think your issue is that you did not calibrate initially. You asked in an earlier post why the Ca and Mg were ok....remember these are three different titration tests with three different reagents. The Ca and Mg have a wider margin of error than the Alkalinity. During shipping you do not know the effects of heat, motion, jarring , etc might have on the mechanism. Something could have happened that affected only the Alkalinity test which has a much tighter margin of error. Hence why Neptune recommends calibrating after a few days of use.

I have two tridents, one on my main system and another on my frag system. They have been working perfectly and providing very consistent results. I have calibrated with each 3 reagent change episode. I have it controlling my DOS additions of ATI essentials PRO. The stability I have achieved is far better than anything I was able to achieve in the past.

Happy Reefing!

So should I just assume my Trident readings are the most accurate (of all current consumer testing tools/kits) after performing proper calibration on the next Reagent batch - and that calibration will compensate/resolve any possibility of faulty mechanisms or software issues?

 

[CDavmd]

I would, its ok to use the calibration fluid with other test kits and look at the results. Then calculate the deviation allowed based on the manufacturers stated accuracy. THEN compare to your trident. You will see that they all fall into an acceptable range.

 

[User1]

I have two tridents, one on my main system and another on my frag system.

Many of us can't even get one...

 

[vangvace]

So should I just assume my Trident readings are the most accurate (of all current consumer testing tools/kits) after performing proper calibration on the next Reagent batch - and that calibration will compensate/resolve any possibility of faulty mechanisms or software issues?

If it gives you a consistent number test to test then sure. My other hobby is building computers so I learned never fully trust manufacturer's numbers until they are repeatedly verified by third party reviews.

Edit: I would also add that I wouldn't trust it or other products to control dosing at this point.

 

[mitch91175]

I have zero to gain from either of these companies. Trident feels cheap and like it’ll just fall apart. Alkatronic is better build quality for sure. Yes maybe a little louder but I am used to the noise now and just tune it out really.

I had to unplug my Trident to get it acting right. Testing normal again.

 

[CDavmd]

Many of us can't even get one...

I know [emoji20]

I was extremely lucky. I was able to get one from BRS’ second release and a month later while getting supplies it suddenly appeared in stock. Pure luck.