Triton Core7 and alk consumption?

Simonsen · Mar 20, 2018

Hi!

The last periode i have struggled whit high alk consumption relative to the ca and mg channels, and i still dont get the alk to stop drop.

I dose 30ml from the mg and ca container, and 45ml from the alk container, and its still drop.
After one week i need to increase the value whit nyos alk buffer to adjust it to the right value again (Beside the Triton Core7)

Ca is on 450 and Mg is on 1500.

Is it anything who consume the alk much?

I know the best way is to dose same amount from all the channels but in my case, this is not possible.

Anyone have some help?

Got a good load of Acros and Montis by the way.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Mar 20, 2018

The alk part of Core 7 has alkalinity in 3A and 3B. Are you dosing both? Did you combine them (if so, you need to dose twice as much of that part).

Simonsen · Mar 20, 2018

Yes. I have mixed them 50/50. 500ml of A and 500ml of B. And yes. I doubled the dose from Channel 3.

But my CA was a bit high, so i adjusted the CA and MG down a bit, and KH up a bit since the alk was droppet so fast.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Mar 20, 2018

Simonsen said:
Yes. I have mixed them 50/50. 500ml of A and 500ml of B. And yes. I doubled the dose from Channel 3.

But my CA was a bit high, so i adjusted the CA and MG down a bit, and KH up a bit since the alk was droppet so fast.

I'm confused. You say you doubled the dose and yet you also quoted 30 mL from Calcium and 45 mL from alkalinity, which, if exactly accurate, is low on alkalinity since you'd expect to need 60 mL (double the calcium part).

Simonsen · Mar 20, 2018

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
I'm confused. You say you doubled the dose and yet you also quoted 30 mL from Calcium and 45 mL from alkalinity, which, if exactly accurate, is low on alkalinity since you'd expect to need 60 mL (double the calcium part).

Yes. I have only a 3 channel Grotech Doser so i mix the 3A and 3B so you need to double the dose from the third channel, right?

Randy Holmes-Farley · Mar 20, 2018

Simonsen said:
Yes. I have only a 3 channel Grotech Doser so i mix the 3A and 3B so you need to double the dose from the third channel, right?

Yes, so if you dose 30 mL of calcium, expect to dose 60 mL of the alk channel. If you only dosed 45 mL of the alk channel, that explains why it is not maintaining alkalinity.

Simonsen · Mar 20, 2018

Maby i write it the wrong way, but i mean 45 x 2 (Also 90ML on channel 3).

Randy Holmes-Farley · Mar 20, 2018

Simonsen said:
Maby i write it the wrong way, but i mean 45 x 2 (Also 90ML on channel 3).

Ok, I understand now.

Have you actually tried to increase the dose of all the parts, in equal amounts, to maintain alkalinity? You might find that calcium still seems fine.

I cannot be certain how accurately Triton has actually devised their system for equal parts dosing, but in general, there are only a small number of things that cause alk to drop faster than calcium, relative to the expected ratio of 2.8 dKH per each 18-20 ppm calcium.

These are:

1. An illusion, because even at the expected ratio of decline, alkalinity drops faster on a percentage basis, and rapidly falls out of the "normal"
range, while there is a huge reservoir of calcium in seawater, so it appears to drop a lot more slowly, and that decline is often not seen accurately with calcium kits for a substantial period. At that point, you may find you actually would have been fine with equal parts dosing nad may have to add back the amount you didn't add because you thought it was enough.

2. Water changes with a salt mix that has relatively higher calcium than alkalinity, relative to your tank target. What salt mix are you using?

3. A sulfur denitrator will deplete alkalinity.

4. Rising nitrate levels will deplete alkalinity. About 4.5 dKH for each 50 ppm of nitrate increase

This has more details:

When Do Calcium and Alkalinity Demand Not Exactly Balance? by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-12/rhf/index.htm

Simonsen · Mar 20, 2018

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Ok, I understand now.

Have you actually tried to increase the dose of all the parts, in equal amounts, to maintain alkalinity? You might find that calcium still seems fine.

I cannot be certain how accurately Triton has actually devised their system for equal parts dosing, but in general, there are only a small number of things that cause alk to drop faster than calcium, relative to the expected ratio of 2.8 dKH per each 18-20 ppm calcium.

These are:

1. An illusion, because even at the expected ratio of decline, alkalinity drops faster on a percentage basis, and rapidly falls out of the "normal"
range, while there is a huge reservoir of calcium in seawater, so it appears to drop a lot more slowly, and that decline is often not seen accurately with calcium kits for a substantial period. At that point, you may find you actually would have been fine with equal parts dosing nad may have to add back the amount you didn't add because you thought it was enough.

2. Water changes with a salt mix that has relatively higher calcium than alkalinity, relative to your tank target. What salt mix are you using?

3. A sulfur denitrator will deplete alkalinity.

4. Rising nitrate levels will deplete alkalinity. About 4.5 dKH for each 50 ppm of nitrate increase

This has more details:

When Do Calcium and Alkalinity Demand Not Exactly Balance? by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-12/rhf/index.htm

So you mean i should set all channels to the same amounts?

Good answer!

2. I have used Aquaforest Probiotic Salt, but not for month now. I dont do WC now when i use Trion Method.

3. So the Sulfur steals the alk? From the RO system?

4. Dont think i got high nitrates. Got a Refugium on 10% of the water amount, a Nyos 220 skimmer and a reactor whit AL99 on my 110g system.

---

But is it any chance that the KH drops faster because i dose less from the CA channel?

Randy Holmes-Farley · Mar 20, 2018

Simonsen said:
So you mean i should set all channels to the same amounts?

Good answer!

2. I have used Aquaforest Probiotic Salt, but not for month now. I dont do WC now when i use Trion Method.

3. So the Sulfur steals the alk? From the RO system?

4. Dont think i got high nitrates. Got a Refugium on 10% of the water amount, a Nyos 220 skimmer and a reactor whit AL99 on my 110g system.

---

But is it any chance that the KH drops faster because i dose less from the CA channel?

It is certainly possible your pumps are not delivering the rated amount if the measurement is based only on a timer and not actual measurements.

For a sulfur denitrator, In these systems, bacteria use elemental sulfur and produce N2 from the sulfur and nitrate according the following equation (or something similar):

2 H2O + 5 S + 6 NO3– → 3 N2 + 5 SO42- + 4 H+

The production of acid (H+) in this reactor can tend to reduce the aquarium alkalinity.

Simonsen · Mar 21, 2018

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
It is certainly possible your pumps are not delivering the rated amount if the measurement is based only on a timer and not actual measurements.

For a sulfur denitrator, In these systems, bacteria use elemental sulfur and produce N2 from the sulfur and nitrate according the following equation (or something similar):

2 H2O + 5 S + 6 NO3– → 3 N2 + 5 SO42- + 4 H+

The production of acid (H+) in this reactor can tend to reduce the aquarium alkalinity.

Yeah. The pump has dosed for 5 years now, so maby its time for service.

Can the AL99 in the reactor eat Alk?