Triton Core7 - Suddenly dosing triple and dKH not moving.

Fisherman Joe · Sep 18, 2020

So I have a GHL KH Director and it got wet, not sure how. First time ever. While it’s being repaired I was manually testing and adjusting the dKH using a salifert test kit.

I have a 600L tank and as per the Triton core 7 instructions you should dose 2ml per 100L. So I have been dosing 2ml x 6 daily doses (12ml) for the past year but the KH Director has been doing its thing. Maybe adding 50% when needed or more.

Manually testing and dosing I’m finding my dKH around 6.7 so I have been slow my increasing my dosing of all four parts and it’s now at 14ml x 6 times (84ml) a day but the dKH is the same. That’s a 700% increase.

Now, pH, it was previously around 8.3 but recently It’s been around 8.0. I don’t know how that factors in.

My Ca is 390 and my Mg is 1320.

I have added some new corals lately and I have some 20 or so frags growing on a rack BUT nothing major has changed.

A recent Triton test said a few elements were low like strontium and molybdenum but nothing major.

Any idea what’s causing this, should I keep increasing my dose to g

Flippers4pups · Sep 18, 2020

symon_say · Sep 18, 2020

Are you dosing in a high flow area?

I had the same problem until i add a powerhead where is dose.

Fisherman Joe · Sep 21, 2020

Yes. Dosing in the same area with high flow.

Dr. Jim · Sep 21, 2020

I use the Core 7 also. I'm sure you know that each component has trace elements so you need to dose the 4 parts equally. That means you need to increase the dosages until either the Ca or Mg reaches it's "target" number, then you can't go any higher with the CORE 7. It looks like your Mg is right where Triton recommends. Your Ca is OK too (although perhaps I'd add a touch of calcium chloride just to bring it up a bit (to 400-420 perhaps). So, assuming you are OK with your Mg at 1320, you've reached your maximum dosage with CORE 7. So now you have to separately add a buffer to get your Alk up to wherever you want it. (I like around 8.0).

All this is assuming your test kits are accurate. Did the Triton results come close to matching the Ca and Mg? Which kit are you using to test the alk? I find alk test kits to be difficult to trust and they rarely agree with each other. I have a GHL Director also. I use it only to test the alk but am not real quick to trust it's readings. I use it more to look for "drifting" trends. And although I know one purpose of the GHL Director is to adjust dosages, I would never be comfortable allowing it to do that like you are doing. You're brave!

To get a more accurate alk reading, I periodically test with the Hanna checker, Red Sea Alk kit and Salifert alk kit, all at the same time and compare them (knowing that the last kit always reads high IMO).

In regard to the pH, I'd wonder how accurate that 6.7 value is. Are you relying on the GHL pH probe? If so, have you calibrated it recently? Anyway, the pH will probably rise once you get the alkalinity up. Better yet, I HIGHLY recommend plumbing air to the skimmer from an outside window.... no matter what it takes to do that! I assure you that you will be amazed at the improvement

Fisherman Joe · Sep 21, 2020

Thanks for clarifying. I didn’t know much of what you said. I presumed that if I continued to dose All four parts at equal levels but in higher doses, then it would increase all the parameter too.

Is this not the case?

If I dose all for parts and extra 25%, will it not raise the Ca, Mg and dKH?

Fisherman Joe · Sep 21, 2020

I might try plumbing the air outdoors. Thanks for the suggestion.

I run a CO2 scrubber. Would I need to do this with external air?

Dr. Jim · Sep 21, 2020

Yes, if you increase the dose (equally) for all 4 parts, then the Ca, Mg, and Alk will all increase proportionately (as well as the trace elements), but how much higher do you want your Mg to go? or Ca? They are very close to their max now, especially the Mg.
So what I was saying is that once you reach the "max" for any of the three (Ca, Mg, Alk) then you shouldn't increase it any more. So let's say your Mg reaches its max but your Ca and Alk are low....then you can add a little calcium chloride to get your Ca where you want it, then slowly raise your buffer.

I am dosing the CORE 7 at it's "max" plus I dose a little extra buffer daily.

I bought a CO2 scrubber at the same time that I started my "outdoor air" plumbing project. After completing that I found I don't really need the scrubber. But since I have it, I use it but have a valve that allows only a little of the outside air to pass thru the scrubber. I also have an inline carbon filter to remove gases/fumes in the air (lawnmowers, cars, lawn chemicals, etc).

Fisherman Joe · Sep 21, 2020

That sounds like a great idea regarding outside air. I’m on it!
How do you ensure you don’t get bugs in the line? Some sort of mesh filter?

Regarding the Triton reagents we are on the same page. I like my Mg around 1350 and Ca around 420 so I will look to raise them both a little more. It seems to be taking A LOT to raise it all a little.

What is the “max” dose you speak of? Just the theoretical limit before you go over the target range?

Randy Holmes-Farley · Sep 22, 2020

I don't see a reason for your result, and lowering of pH will reduce demand for alk, not increase it. I'd be careful it is not purely a manual testing or dosing issue of some sort compared to the automated past.

Fisherman Joe · Sep 22, 2020

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
I don't see a reason for your result, and lowering of pH will reduce demand for alk, not increase it. I'd be careful it is not purely a manual testing or dosing issue of some sort compared to the automated past.

It seems remarkably high doing to me.

I got my KH Director back yesterday and it read 6.8. My salifert kit was 7.0.

I can only presume all these reagents are going somewhere. Or perhaps the latest batch I mixed aren’t as concentrated?

malfist · Sep 22, 2020

Fisherman Joe said:
I can only presume all these reagents are going somewhere. Or perhaps the latest batch I mixed aren’t as concentrated?

I don't know what's in the triton core 7, but if you know by how much it's supposed to raise alk you could take a sample from the tank, measure it, and then add a known amount of the trition base 7 and see if you get the expected raise in alk.

Miller535 · Sep 22, 2020

Fisherman Joe said:
It seems remarkably high doing to me.

I got my KH Director back yesterday and it read 6.8. My salifert kit was 7.0.

I can only presume all these reagents are going somewhere. Or perhaps the latest batch I mixed aren’t as concentrated?

Perhaps you should reach out to Triton. I have found them very helpful. When the person I talked to did not know my answer nor did his supervisor he even reached out to the owner of Triton (I forget his name) who is pretty knowledgeable.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Sep 22, 2020

Fisherman Joe said:
It seems remarkably high doing to me.

I got my KH Director back yesterday and it read 6.8. My salifert kit was 7.0.

I can only presume all these reagents are going somewhere. Or perhaps the latest batch I mixed aren’t as concentrated?

How much in dKH per day?

Dr. Jim · Sep 22, 2020

Fisherman Joe said:
That sounds like a great idea regarding outside air. I’m on it!
How do you ensure you don’t get bugs in the line? Some sort of mesh filter?

Regarding the Triton reagents we are on the same page. I like my Mg around 1350 and Ca around 420 so I will look to raise them both a little more. It seems to be taking A LOT to raise it all a little.

What is the “max” dose you speak of? Just the theoretical limit before you go over the target range?

Just put a screen over the end of the pipe or tube for bugs.

The "max" is the highest level you want the Ca or Mg to be, whichever reaches that level first.

I've always found that I have to dose more than the recommended dosage that Triton suggests, although their recommendation is just a starting point.

After I finish with my present supply of CORE 7, I may go to a different brand. I don't like the trace elements spread amongst the 4 parts, forcing you to dose equal amounts.

Fisherman Joe · Sep 22, 2020

As far as I read the trace elements are only in the Mg.

Fisherman Joe · Sep 23, 2020

Ok. So things seem to be “back to normal” in that my dKH has rocketed to 9.0 within a day. How strange. My pH is back at 8.3 and was actually 8.45 last night and had me a little worried.

I recently added some new PO4 remover and I know that can affect the dKH but that was weeks ago. Can’t see that being responsible.

I also recently removed a large container of carbon but again can’t see that absorbing all four parts of the core 7 solution.

I can only put it down to the simplest solution,perhaps the reagents weren’t mixed properly or had air bubbles in the lines?

I still don’t understand what caused this “stall”. My dKH was 6.7 for about two weeks. I needed going from dosing 12ml (all four parts) to dosing 80ml and it still wouldn’t move. Now over night, without changing anything obvious. It’s back at a normal level for that kind of dose.

The only change I made is adding my KH Director back in to my system. Maybe that rapidly adjusts the dosing pumps more than I realised? When I looked a the adjustments the KH Director Was making it only said it was adding 50% to the dose I set at 6 x 12ml and preciously I had it set the dosing pumps to 6 x 16ml and it was dosing that and nothing was changing. So I’m theory the KH Director was telling the dosing pump to ad 12ml + 50% so 18ml which is only a little more than the previous dose and now this huge swing happens.

Odd.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Sep 23, 2020

Problems that resolve themselves are always the best kind.

Dr. Jim · Sep 23, 2020

Fisherman Joe said:
As far as I read the trace elements are only in the Mg.

Here is how Danny from Unique Corals, distributor of Triton products, answered my question regarding trace elements in ALL 4 parts of CORE 7:

"Hi James,

here is the information to the following.

1) Is it true that each of the 4 parts contains various trace elements? Yes

If so, then they shouldn’t be used individually to correct Ca, Mg or Alk deficiencies, correct? Correct, other products can be used such as the triton alkalinity or mag increaser".