Triton or Kalk?

[Matthew Morrison]

what do you run? Triton or Kalk? What’s your opinion?

 

[Reeferdood]

I run ESV B-Ionic. As for your question, this is all your preference and what you are trying to achieve in your box of water.

 

[ZoWhat]

I run this radical new method called a "Water Change".....LOL

 

[Matthew Morrison]

I run ESV B-Ionic. As for your question, this is all your preference and what you are trying to achieve in your box of water.

Thanks I appreciate you. I just wondered what people preferred themselves and there success with it. I am running triton but my alk has not dropped since initial dose 2 months ago. I have 125 gallon mixed with 3 radion xr15 pro gen 4. I was just wondering if the reason none of the frags started to grow and lower the dkh at all was due to something I’m doing wrong or if doing 2 part would be better.

 

[Matthew Morrison]

My tank is 2 months old coral 4 months fish

 

[MJNTWise]

I run ATI....

 

[Greybeard]

I tried Triton on my new system (a year in, at this point). Didn't work for me. Honestly, from my experience, Triton is best suited to an established reef... I may well go back and revisit it at some point. Triton ICP TESTING, on the other hand, is an incredibly valuable tool... regardless of what 'system' you use in your aquarium. It allows more insight and vision into what is really going on in our tanks than anything that existed before. I know, others are doing ICP now... I don't have a preference, but Triton brought it to the hobby.

I've used BRS's 2pt in the past... it works, but that system needed a consistent water change regimen. It's less attractive now, since their 'Pharma' chems have raised the price significantly.

I used Red Sea's 'Reef Mature' system to get my current reef up and running. Other than cost, I was quite happy with the results. If you're going to be carbon dosing for nutrient control, it's as good a method as any. I prefer a macro algae refugeum, so I didn't continue with the NoPo4x thing, but initial results were excellent.

I'm a HUGE Kalkwasser fan... have been using it on and off since the early 90's. Until you exceed it's capacity to keep up with coral demand, it's likely the cheapest, easiest, and most balanced method you can use. Even once you've exceeded it's capacity, it's still a valuable tool. I dose 950ml (or 1 quart) of saturated Kalk every day, along with my other Calc/Alk/Mg method... which is:

ESV B-Ionic. I use their Calc, Alk, and Magnesium, along with the Kalkwasser. Why? Easy, not terribly expensive, no clouds of dry chemical plumes to breath when mixing, some 'trace elements' that seem to work well for me (I was able to cut my water change schedule in half, with no negative consequences). Been around forever... I first used ESV about two decades ago... works as well now as it did then.

 

[mcarroll]

what do you run? Triton or Kalk? What’s your opinion?

Does that either/or make sense? I'd suggest separating the two in your mind.

One is for ???

And the other is the make up for calcium and alkalinity that stony corals use up during growth.

Alternatives to kalk would seem to be one-part, two-part, three-part, Balling, calcium reactor...

Alternatives to Triton or similar 'systems' would seem to be reading books, magazines and articles...

I strongly suggest books and two-part, myself.

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

Triton's complete method and dosing calcium hydroxide are two completely different things. Triton's method aims to maintain nearly all of the elements in seawater at natural levels by testing and using specialized additives. Calcium hydroxide will only maintain calcium and alkalinity, as well as adding a bit of Mg and a few other impurities.

If you're asking if you can mix the two, technically speaking you can. Keep in mind, however, that Triton's alkalinity and calcium supplements also contain trace minerals. If you use only the Triton additives, the theory goes that you will replace trace elements at the same rate they are used using alkalinity and calcium levels as a proxy measurement. Dosing calcium hydroxide will replace calcium and carbonate, but it will not replace those trace elements. This might not be a problem, as calcium hydroxide has other benefits. You also can always just dose individual elements if they get too low from not using Triton's branded cal/alk additives. Just be aware that the Triton calcium and carbonate alkalinity supplements contain more than just calcium and carbonate.

 

[mcarroll]

Just be aware that the Triton calcium and carbonate alkalinity supplements contain more than just calcium and carbonate.

+1

As is the case with many (if not all) two-part supplements. ESV and Brightwell to be sure. Probably TLF and others as well.

 

[Matthew Morrison]

I tried Triton on my new system (a year in, at this point). Didn't work for me. Honestly, from my experience, Triton is best suited to an established reef... I may well go back and revisit it at some point. Triton ICP TESTING, on the other hand, is an incredibly valuable tool... regardless of what 'system' you use in your aquarium. It allows more insight and vision into what is really going on in our tanks than anything that existed before. I know, others are doing ICP now... I don't have a preference, but Triton brought it to the hobby.

I've used BRS's 2pt in the past... it works, but that system needed a consistent water change regimen. It's less attractive now, since their 'Pharma' chems have raised the price significantly.

I used Red Sea's 'Reef Mature' system to get my current reef up and running. Other than cost, I was quite happy with the results. If you're going to be carbon dosing for nutrient control, it's as good a method as any. I prefer a macro algae refugeum, so I didn't continue with the NoPo4x thing, but initial results were excellent.

I'm a HUGE Kalkwasser fan... have been using it on and off since the early 90's. Until you exceed it's capacity to keep up with coral demand, it's likely the cheapest, easiest, and most balanced method you can use. Even once you've exceeded it's capacity, it's still a valuable tool. I dose 950ml (or 1 quart) of saturated Kalk every day, along with my other Calc/Alk/Mg method... which is:

ESV B-Ionic. I use their Calc, Alk, and Magnesium, along with the Kalkwasser. Why? Easy, not terribly expensive, no clouds of dry chemical plumes to breath when mixing, some 'trace elements' that seem to work well for me (I was able to cut my water change schedule in half, with no negative consequences). Been around forever... I first used ESV about two decades ago... works as well now as it did then.

Thank you Greybeard for taking your time to help me as well as you did.
What was the main thing you did not like about Triton system that didn't work for you?

How long did it take you to recieve your ICP Testing results once mailed out?

Thanks for telling me about 2 part and the water changes. I have a 125 gallon and i want to do as little to zero water changes as possible.
Thats why Triton method and dosing Triton Core 7 was so appealing to me. The results brs had with there brs 160 and the zero water changes they did once they implemented the Triton Core 7 system.

When I googled The Red Sea's 'Reef Mature' system. It seems like that s a startup system and not Red Sea's 'Reef foundation package'. I thought about doing red sea or zeovit but when i found out i did not have to do water changes on the triton method i decided on triton sump from synergy reef and triton core 7. Again i have only dosed once and my alk 1-2 months later still reads 8.8. Some days it reads 8.1 others it reads 9.1. I use the Hanna DKH checker.

Kalkwasser sounds like that would be my solution to dosing cal/dkh and something that adds mg and trace elements. Possibly the ESV B-Ionic. That product is new to me. I did not know about it really before today.

I wonder if coral frags not growing at all in the first couple months is normal or common? I wonder if kalkwasser would be doing a better job at starting the growth at all?

 

[Matthew Morrison]

Does that either/or make sense? I'd suggest separating the two in your mind.

One is for ???

And the other is the make up for calcium and alkalinity that stony corals use up during growth.

Alternatives to kalk would seem to be one-part, two-part, three-part, Balling, calcium reactor...

Alternatives to Triton or similar 'systems' would seem to be reading books, magazines and articles...

I strongly suggest books and two-part, myself.

Thanks for taking the time to respond to my question.
I have dosed triton core 7 and i went into detail about my reason for the question in the response to Greybeard.
Are you saying you don't believe that dosing triton core 7 will grow and maintain a healthy coral tank?

 

[Matthew Morrison]

Triton's complete method and dosing calcium hydroxide are two completely different things. Triton's method aims to maintain nearly all of the elements in seawater at natural levels by testing and using specialized additives. Calcium hydroxide will only maintain calcium and alkalinity, as well as adding a bit of Mg and a few other impurities.

If you're asking if you can mix the two, technically speaking you can. Keep in mind, however, that Triton's alkalinity and calcium supplements also contain trace minerals. If you use only the Triton additives, the theory goes that you will replace trace elements at the same rate they are used using alkalinity and calcium levels as a proxy measurement. Dosing calcium hydroxide will replace calcium and carbonate, but it will not replace those trace elements. This might not be a problem, as calcium hydroxide has other benefits. You also can always just dose individual elements if they get too low from not using Triton's branded cal/alk additives. Just be aware that the Triton calcium and carbonate alkalinity supplements contain more than just calcium and carbonate.

Thanks for taking the time to answer my question.
I don't plan on mixing them. My situation is detailed better in my reply to Greybeard a few posts up from this one.

 

[mcarroll]

Thanks for taking the time to respond to my question.
I have dosed triton core 7 and i went into detail about my reason for the question in the response to Greybeard.
Are you saying you don't believe that dosing triton core 7 will grow and maintain a healthy coral tank?

I'm saying that I'm not sure what it's for...to me it seems very opaque as a system. "Not doing water changes, but using a mail-in testing service" is not really a strategy.

Kalk's role is much more clear and concise.

Why are you against water changes? Knowing this would help. I don't do them, but not because I'm against them.

Are you trying to justify sticking with Triton's system or looking for an alternative? Both are possible.

I'm still getting a handle on the nature of the inquiry.

So far, I think I'd recommend a switch from what you're doing now over to 2-3 good books and an ordinary two-part dosing plan until the tank is settled. Then once that's settled don't change anything.

(DIY, ESV, TLF, Brightwell....u pick. Whatever you select it should be something very easy to comprehend and execute – this is important when starting out.)

I'd suggest for starters:

• Natural Reef Aquariums: Simplified Approaches to Creating Living Saltwater Microcosms
  
• THE MARINE AQUARIUM REFERENCE: SYSTEMS AND INVERTEBRATES
  
• Marine Aquarium Handbook: Beginner to Breeder
  
• The Conscientious Marine Aquarist: A Commonsense Handbook for Successful Saltwater Hobbyists

For something heavier, consider:

• The Reef Aquarium: A Comprehensive Guide to the Identification and Care of Tropical Marine Invertebrates (Volume 1-3)
• The Modern Coral Reef Aquarium, Vol. 1-4

 

[Matthew Morrison]

I'm saying that I'm not sure what it's for...to me it seems very opaque as a system. "Not doing water changes, but using a mail-in testing service" is not really a strategy.

Kalk's role is much more clear and concise.

Why are you against water changes? Knowing this would help. I don't do them, but not because I'm against them.

Are you trying to justify sticking with Triton's system or looking for an alternative? Both are possible.

I'm still getting a handle on the nature of the inquiry.

So far, I think I'd recommend a switch from what you're doing now over to 2-3 good books and an ordinary two-part dosing plan until the tank is settled. Then once that's settled don't change anything.

(DIY, ESV, TLF, Brightwell....u pick. Whatever you select it should be something very easy to comprehend and execute – this is important when starting out.)

I'd suggest for starters:

• Natural Reef Aquariums: Simplified Approaches to Creating Living Saltwater Microcosms
  
• THE MARINE AQUARIUM REFERENCE: SYSTEMS AND INVERTEBRATES
  
• Marine Aquarium Handbook: Beginner to Breeder
  
• The Conscientious Marine Aquarist: A Commonsense Handbook for Successful Saltwater Hobbyists

For something heavier, consider:

• The Reef Aquarium: A Comprehensive Guide to the Identification and Care of Tropical Marine Invertebrates (Volume 1-3)
• The Modern Coral Reef Aquarium, Vol. 1-4

Thanks, the reason I don't want to do water changes is because its too much work on my 125 gallon tank. I have rodi water both in home and brs rodi system. Regardless my ability to make the water is painfulllllllllllyyyyy slow. 2 gallons an hour slow. Not sure why. Maybe I need a booster to up the output.
I also am not able to store a giant container of rodi water/salt mix anywhere near my tank. I would have to haul 5 gallon buckets or buy a powerful pump to pump the water in from another room.
That is why I don't want to do water changes.
All I want is for my reef tank to grow coral and be successful.
I have not put this much time, energy, and money into this for it not to be the most beautiful thing I have ever seen.

 

[mcarroll]

I have not put this much time, energy, and money into this for it not to be the most beautiful thing I have ever seen.

You're well out on an aesthetic limb there – I hope that's how it turns out!!!

But I can say that since laziness appears to be the goal* you might be going down the wrong path.

I haven't heard anyone say these "methods" are easy or simple. In fact they seem barely explainable and highly mysterious in some cases.

What is easy and simple is the water change.

If you're not down for the lifting, then either shrink the water change down to a convenient size and do it more frequently...or automate it.

I did 5 gallon daily water changes for quite a while on a 100 gallon system. I used pumps and a 50' hose to move all the water. Getting the hose out and putting it away took all the time, but it was easier than carrying 5 gal of dirty water to sink, and then 5 gal of clean RODI to mix fresh every day. Corals did great, and it was very little physical effort...just a lot of "showing up". (A Water Change A Day...)

But if you can at least have 10-20 gallons of remote RODI and saltwater storage, you can easily justify a set of dosing pumps to automate water changes.

These days (10 year old tank, 5 years on the back burner) I don't do water changes unless something weird happens, which is to say almost never. I dose DIY 3-part (Randy's Recipe #2) through an inexpensive doser, but that's only for the last 2-3 years....I manually dosed the tank every day for most of those ten years, along with regular bi-weekly water changes for most of the first five years. Water changes definitely make a difference toward optimal results, but I'm not sure how necessary they are for "merely great" results. When I have more time to put into the tank, I'll most likely set up automatic water changes, but will still do them occasionally rather than continuously, 24/7/365.

2¢

* nothing wrong with that...one of my #1 goals too...I successfully do very little on my tank these days as a result

 

[Drewbacca]

Curious where you are with your tank now? System & growth? Waterc hanges? I just got 2 $40 pond pumps and ran with 1/2 tubing from 20 gal brute by rodi in corner kitchen cabinet to fill tank and the other sits in sump down through floor out to yard drywell. (4' deep Hole with some gravel in it) Then I used outlet keychain remote buttons to turn them on and off. Click..click..water change. Like mcarroll said...putting the hose away is only work.. as for sc low rodi..me too..I got a booster and added another membrane(150gpd upgrade) it made all the difference. Replacing not perfect water with perfect water IS the easiest "system". I use kalk and triton setup, except i use a filter pad in media tray after skimmer because I just cant go with NO mechanical filter. The chaeto does however make a great filter as it grows on the aquamesh strip that you should have on the rim of your refugium baffle. I Cant say success rate yet as Ive only used this setup for a few months with new 90gal after being a 55gal with hob skimmer and kalk for 4 years.
Interested to hear where you're at with your tank!