Triton Results, Mixed Results

Randy Holmes-Farley · May 20, 2018

Clownfishy said:
Hmmm, not sure where to go with this now. I have checked all my mixing equipment and there is no corrosion so if my saltmix has a zinc reading of 160 µg/l but the aquarium has a lower reading of 37 µg/l, to me the source is the saltmix. If the zinc is not coming from the water, then that leads to the salt itself.
The only thing that I can think of is that I only mix the salt for a few hours before I took the samples to be sent off for testing. Could it be that by mixing for the full 24 hours, some of these elements reduce out as they need this time to mix in correctly? Just checked the side of the salt bucket and there is nothing listing the minimum amount of time the salt should be mixed for.

I don't think the zinc generally precipitates from new salt water.

Clownfishy · Jun 5, 2018

Just had it confirmed from the makers of Reef Crystals that their Zinc levels in their salt are 60 µg/l. The level I detected mixing their salt were 160 µg/l. What is interesting is that in my aquarium the levels are 37 µg/l and Triton flag this as too high so I guess my levels will always be too high according to Triton.
Still, I still have the issue why when I mix up their salt, I have a reading of 100 µg/l above Zinc levels use in Reef Crystals salt. Therefore, I guess I
am back looking into the source water or I have a bad batch of Reef Crystals.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jun 5, 2018

Clownfishy said:
Just had it confirmed from the makers of Reef Crystals that their Zinc levels in their salt are 60 µg/l. The level I detected mixing their salt were 160 µg/l. What is interesting is that in my aquarium the levels are 37 µg/l and Triton flag this as too high so I guess my levels will always be too high according to Triton.
Still, I still have the issue why when I mix up their salt, I have a reading of 100 µg/l above Zinc levels use in Reef Crystals salt. Therefore, I guess I
am back looking into the source water or I have a bad batch of Reef Crystals.

Who exactly confirmed that? I'm surprised they gave you a value, and I wouldn't rely on that value being accurate. Most salt mixes have far, far less.

Clownfishy · Jun 7, 2018

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Who exactly confirmed that? I'm surprised they gave you a value, and I wouldn't rely on that value being accurate. Most salt mixes have far, far less.

Aquarium Systems UK have been discussing with their French "lab technician". This is their last response from them -

As you noted the level of zinc in Reef Crystals is 60 ug/l at 35ppt

It is possible that the zinc could be coming from your water source as this is quite a common thing.

I understand why you think it could be coming from the salt, however each batch is tested before been processed into the buckets or sacks. Each bucket or sack does have a batch code on so we can check if needed.

However if the level of zinc was 160 ug/l then the salt batch was be destroyed and not used.

After speaking to my French salt lab technician he did tell me that the level of zinc you have at 160ug/l in reality is not that high, I know it looks high but the skimmer would remove very easily and you need levels of zinc to help the bacteria as its enzyme activator.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jun 7, 2018

I do not read that as a confirmation, but a recognition that you were claiming it to be true. They said you noted it? What does that mean?

I do not believe the level in Reef Crystals is typically anything close to that high.

The skimmer comments seem odd and also not true.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jun 7, 2018

This salt mix study by Tim Hovanec shows less then 2 ppb zinc in Reef Crystals

https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2004/9/aafeature

Clownfishy · Jun 8, 2018

I think the only way I am going to get to the bottom of this is to test my RO water?

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jun 8, 2018

Clownfishy said:
I think the only way I am going to get to the bottom of this is to test my RO water?

Did you already test new salt water made from RC?

You'd carefully looked over your water system from the DI resin to new salt water or ATO, to the tank to see if there are any metal parts anywhere?

Zinc coated metal is a common treatment to "prevent" corrosion.

Clownfishy · Jun 8, 2018

Newly made saltwater measured 160 µg/l. This was filtering 20litres of water into a food grade plastic container and immediately missing the salt with a heater and pump that showed no signs of corrosion. I let it mix a couple of hours and then took the samples and posted them. I decided to test it this to ensure it was freshly made. What led me test freshly made salt mix as the Zinc levels in my aquarium is 37 µg/l.

2una · Jun 8, 2018

Clownfishy said:
I think the only way I am going to get to the bottom of this is to test my RO water?

Agree & then you will know whether to look left or right

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jun 8, 2018

Clownfishy said:
Newly made saltwater measured 160 µg/l. This was filtering 20litres of water into a food grade plastic container and immediately missing the salt with a heater and pump that showed no signs of corrosion. I let it mix a couple of hours and then took the samples and posted them. I decided to test it this to ensure it was freshly made. What led me test freshly made salt mix as the Zinc levels in my aquarium is 37 µg/l.

That 160 ug/L was an ICP test? By which company?

Clownfishy · Jun 9, 2018

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
That 160 ug/L was an ICP test? By which company?

Triton
https://www.triton-lab.de/en/showroom/aquarium/auswertung-b/icp-oes/64117/

And this the test of my aquarium which led me to indicate high Zinc levels were coming into the aquarium via water changes
https://www.triton-lab.de/en/showroom/aquarium/auswertung-b/icp-oes/64195

Clownfishy · Jun 9, 2018

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
I do not read that as a confirmation, but a recognition that you were claiming it to be true. They said you noted it? What does that mean?

I do not believe the level in Reef Crystals is typically anything close to that high.

The skimmer comments seem odd and also not true.

Just to clarify, that was just their bad English as they are the ones that confirmed their salt is that high. The person is translating from French to English

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jun 9, 2018

OK, so testing the Ro/DI does sound like a good plan.

Clownfishy · Jun 21, 2018

Reference the high Zinc and Iron levels I have, I have just received my RO/DI water test back from Triton so now I have 3 sets of tests -

RO/DI
New salt mix using Reef Crystals salt
Aquarium water which has had Reef Crystal salts used for the last 15 months

RO/DI
Zinc: 0 µg/l
Iron (Fe): 0 µg/l
Full ICP Test: https://www.triton-lab.de/en/showroom/aquarium/auswertung-b/icp-oes/66152/

Reef Crystals Salt Mix
Zinc: 160 µg/l
Iron (Fe): 47 µg/l
Full ICP Test: https://www.triton-lab.de/en/showroom/aquarium/auswertung-b/icp-oes/64117/

Aquarium Water
Zinc: 37 µg/l
Iron (Fe): 7.036 µg/l
Full ICP Test: https://www.triton-lab.de/en/showroom/aquarium/auswertung-b/icp-oes/64195/

I am emailing the makers of Reef Crystals now as I do not know what else I can do but unless Triton tests are incorrect, the batch of Reef Crystal salt I have has Iron and Zinc levels well above what they should be.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jun 21, 2018

Thanks for the update. It will be interesting to see what they say.

How was the salt water mixed? Container? Pump? Did you carefully check the bottom for a screw or nail that might have dropped in?

Clownfishy · Jun 22, 2018

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Thanks for the update. It will be interesting to see what they say.

How was the salt water mixed? Container? Pump? Did you carefully check the bottom for a screw or nail that might have dropped in?

Checked everything, no sign of any corrosion whatsoever. Will post the response but going by their previous statements, I don't hold much hope. In the meantime, I have switched over to H2Ocean salt for water changes.
You mentioned in a previous post that you did not think the RO would be letting through that amount of Zinc and as always, you were right

Clownfishy · Jun 25, 2018

Here is Aquarium Systems response. I guess the ICP tests we are all paying for are in accurate then!

Thanks for the information about the multiple testing of the salt, RO water and aquarium water.

They are different topics of discussion in the following thread of emails.

First and main one is potential high Zinc level in Reef Crystals. To be totally open, we are manufacturing Reef Crystals with batches of 600kg, that means we make about 30 buckets with exactly the same batch, so we would have had same issues with other hobbyists and professionals. In addition to create Reef Crystals we are using chemical raw materials obtain from industrial batches that are substantially larger, with consistent chemical profiles throughout days or weeks of production (for example the Sodium Chloride regular batch is over 100T, same for Magnesium). Knowing this, the absence of numerous similar issues implies the absence of contamination.

The second topic, which is more difficult to realize, is about testing seawater. When we use a simultaneous, multi-element analysis, it cannot be precise. These types of analysis have usually a wide range of accuracy, because some elements interfere with each other in the readout. To have a really accurate quantification of zinc, for example, the element should be analysed separately with precise calibration of the standards. To corroborate my example, when we externalize our tests, we use 1 of the 4 laboratories in France that is qualified to test seawater. I looked at the last analysis and just for Zinc the cost is over 60€ without the bottling and sampling. When we do a complete analysis it costs us over 1200€ externally, and needs about 1 month to have feedbacks. Then we use these to benchmark our in-house analysis. Knowing this I think it is reasonable to also question the veracity of broad spectre analysis which costs 50€ for 40 parameters.

Last but not least, the best indicator of wellbeing of an aquarium is visual. We usually forget that an aquarium is as much chemical as biology... the aquarium is going to have a balance and a thriving aquarium is the best sign of good health.

I hope this help,