Triton test is back. Need advice

[rboutin111]

On December 12th, 2015 I sent in my first Triton test sample. On that same day I tested my water to compare to Triton.

My test personal test results
Nitrate (Red Sea) 4
Phosphate (Hanna) 0
Ca2 Calcium (Red Sea) 325 ppm
Kh Carbonate Hardness (Hanna) 6.16 ppm
Magnesium (Red Sea) 1200 ppm

Triton Test Results
Phosphate 0.010 mg/l
Calcium 402.60 mg/l
Magnesium 1318.00 mg/l

I have many questions.

1) I'll start off with are my unit the same?

2) I have been dosing my tank 28ml of each part per day. This has been slowly brining up my Calcium, Kh and Mag slowly. Many of the elements are low according to Triton. Should I continue to dose the 28ml/day to bring everything up? I'm going to be sending in another test sample tomorrow so this may help answer that questions. Or should I wait until the 12th is it's one month apart?

3) (AI) Aluminum is VERY HIGH. What could cause this and how do I bring it back down?. Is there aluminum in the pumps that can be leaking out?

4) (Co) Cobalt is also a little high. What could cause this?

5) Triton suggest getting the Kh to 8 as the set point. I find it very interesting that it's not something they test for. Is this because they can't do it accurately?

Thanks for all the advice. It's much appreciated.

 

[JimWelsh]

I can try to answer some of your questions.

1) Yes, the "PPM" that most test kits report is mg/L, which is the units Triton reports in (except with it is PPB = ug/L instead).

2) I notice that it appears that your salinity is a bit low, at around 31.3 PPT (calculated from the Macro Elements in your report). If you just allow your salinity to rise due to evaporation until it is at 35 PPT, then all of your parameters will go up by (35 - 31.3 ) / 31.3 = 12%. Unless you have a compelling reason to run your salinity so low, I'd consider simply increasing it to 35. How do you monitor salinity currently?

3) I don't know.

4) I don't know.

5) ICP measures the concentration of specific elements. Alkalinity is not an element. It's not that they can't measure alkalinity accurately; it is that they can't measure it at all with the ICP instrument.

 

[rboutin111]

I can try to answer some of your questions.

1) Yes, the "PPM" that most test kits report is mg/L, which is the units Triton reports in (except with it is PPB = ug/L instead).

2) I notice that it appears that your salinity is a bit low, at around 31.3 PPT (calculated from the Macro Elements in your report). If you just allow your salinity to rise due to evaporation until it is at 35 PPT, then all of your parameters will go up by (35 - 31.3 ) / 31.3 = 12%. Unless you have a compelling reason to run your salinity so low, I'd consider simply increasing it to 35. How do you monitor salinity currently?

3) I don't know.

4) I don't know.

5) ICP measures the concentration of specific elements. Alkalinity is not an element. It's not that they can't measure alkalinity accurately; it is that they can't measure it at all with the ICP instrument.

Thanks for you answers.

2) I use a refractometer for salinity. What one is salinity on the Triton test? I will calibrate my refractometer today.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I have many questions.

1) I'll start off with are my unit the same?

2) I have been dosing my tank 28ml of each part per day. This has been slowly brining up my Calcium, Kh and Mag slowly. Many of the elements are low according to Triton. Should I continue to dose the 28ml/day to bring everything up? I'm going to be sending in another test sample tomorrow so this may help answer that questions. Or should I wait until the 12th is it's one month apart?

3) (AI) Aluminum is VERY HIGH. What could cause this and how do I bring it back down?. Is there aluminum in the pumps that can be leaking out?

4) (Co) Cobalt is also a little high. What could cause this?

Magnesium is already plenty high. Calcium is barely depleted and a small boost will raise it, but as Jim mentioned, raising the salinity will give you more than enough of it too.

For aluminum, it may not be high enough to be a problem, but are you using any white phosphate binders or media for bacteria? Any aluminum metal above the tank that might be corroding? Not likely to be from a pump that is intended for underwater use.

For cobalt, are you adding any trace element additives or anything other than the two part for calcium/alk/magnesium?.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Thanks for you answers.

2) I use a refractometer for salinity. What one is salinity on the Triton test? I will calibrate my refractometer today.

It is a calculation that can be done on a spreadsheet from many of the values, not a single one.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Any use of ceramic decorations or frag plugs, etc?

 

[rboutin111]

Any use of ceramic decorations or frag plugs, etc?

I have no ceramic decorations. I have a total of 4 frag plugs in the tank. Can these be the contributors? How could the aluminum effect the livestock? I have noticed that many of my corals are not thriving like usual and the color is a little dull. I was contributing this to switching from Radions to ATI fixture recently, but maybe it's not that.

 

[rboutin111]

It is a calculation that can be done on a spreadsheet from many of the values, not a single one.

I wold love to learn how to do that calculation.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I have no ceramic decorations. I have a total of 4 frag plugs in the tank. Can these be the contributors? How could the aluminum effect the livestock? I have noticed that many of my corals are not thriving like usual and the color is a little dull. I was contributing this to switching from Radions to ATI fixture recently, but maybe it's not that.

I do not know if the aluminum is causing any of that, but I discuss aluminum and show some tox effects here:


Chemistry And The Aquarium: Aluminum In The Reef Aquarium ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/july2003/chem.htm

 

[rboutin111]

I do not know if the aluminum is causing any of that, but I discuss aluminum and show some tox effects here:


Chemistry And The Aquarium: Aluminum In The Reef Aquarium ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/july2003/chem.htm

This is fantastic. Thank you Randy. I may get back to you with other questions after I read it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I wold love to learn how to do that calculation.

Here's a discussion of the calculation:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/c...ton-icp-oes-test-results.184436/#post-2239277

I'm sure Jim will be happy to guide you through it.

 

[slojmn]

Other than Aluminum your numbers look pretty darn good! bring that Salinity up a tad and. BOOM, you'll be spot on.

 

[rboutin111]

Other than Aluminum your numbers look pretty darn good! bring that Salinity up a tad and. BOOM, you'll be spot on.

Thank you. I am working on brining up the salinity. I assume I can only lower the aluminum with water changes. Do you know?

 

[twilliard]

Yup your Na is low (salt) as mentioned

 

[ksfulk]

Thank you. I am working on brining up the salinity. I assume I can only lower the aluminum with water changes. Do you know?

From my observations, using an Aluminum based phosphate remover (typically white in color) will add Aluminum to your system. Alternating between Aluminum based PO4 removers and GFO will lessen the aluminum thats released in your system. Some people point to using GFO to help remove the Al from the system, but I dont have any experience with that. Typically, high Al has been shown to have an effect on some soft corals (leathers in particular), but Randy would know more than I do, as he ran the experiement(s).

As f0r the yet unasnwered alkalinity question from above, because Alkalinity is a measurement based on several factors, and not just a single, measureable parameter - the triton test does not / can not give you a result. You can come close by using some of the measurements given in the test, but you would also have to know pH and maybe temperature (?) to get a more accurate reading. Its for this reason why there are a lot of questions around monitoring devices (such as the Mindstream) that give an Alkalinity reading, but it is likely "close enough" and not the exact reading.

 

[JimWelsh]

You can come close by using some of the measurements given in the test, but you would also have to know pH and maybe temperature (?) to get a more accurate reading.

Which parameters of the Triton test do you think would enable a person to calculate carbonate alkalinity, even if only approximately?

 

[jason2459]

Thank you. I am working on brining up the salinity. I assume I can only lower the aluminum with water changes. Do you know?

You could try a Polyfilter to help remove the Aluminum. http://www.marinedepot.com/Poly_Fil...Media-Poly_Bio_Marine-PB1111-FIFMMEPM-vi.html

 

[JimWelsh]

I wold love to learn how to do that calculation.

The spreadsheet can be found here.

 

[rboutin111]

The spreadsheet can be found here.

Thanks for this. I did recalibrate my refractometer today. It was of by 2ppm. My salinity was at 33ppm according to my refractometer. I have dropped down my Smart ATO height to start to increase my salinity slowly. Thanks for noticing that and doing the calculation.

I have to say all the help I have received on this test so quickly has been remarkable. This form certainly has many committed and educated members. I would be second guessing everything I do with my aquarium if it wasn't for all of you. Thank you!!!!

 

[rboutin111]

You could try a Polyfilter to help remove the Aluminum. http://www.marinedepot.com/Poly_Fil...Media-Poly_Bio_Marine-PB1111-FIFMMEPM-vi.html

Thank for this. I do use filter socks and have some poly filter in there now. I might just need to replace them more often until this is resolved.