Trouble cycling my 75 Gallon

[billswin99]

So I have a 75 gallon with a 500gph canister filter with built in skimmer. I have 50 pounds of cured live rock (was shipped wet). Also 40 pounds of dry rock.

I also used natures ocean 70 pounds of live sand. My water is filtered through the top of the line rainsoft water purifying unit. Had it tested from the tap at the fish store and said it was good.

I used 2 raw shrimps to help with the fishless cycle took them out after a full week. They were pretty much gone. My ammonia was 2-3 at first for the week. It dropped to 0 but my nitrites 5+ and my nitrates 160+ both off the charts. It has been like this for over a week +.

I did a 15% water change a few days ago didn't even make a dent.

Going on 3 weeks now and the nitrates and nitrites won't budge. I really don't want to do a huge water change during the cycle.

I ordered bio-spira live bacteria and the same brand nitrate reducer with dr tims pure ammonia.

Can I use the live bacteria with such high nitrates and nitrites seems odd to me.

Any help would be awesome.

 

[rsljr81]

Is it a canister filter or hang on filter?

 

[rsljr81]

I have never seen a canister with built in skimmer. Canister filters need to be cleaned out at least once a week if not you will have a nutrient problem. Canisters not ideal for reef tank.

 

[Twisted_Blenny]

what are you testing with? what brand test kit?

 

[billswin99]

Api saltwater test kit. Yes 4 tiered canister with in line skimmer keeps the top clean imo

 

[brandon429]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-microbiology-of-reef-tank-cycling.214618/

that w solve it for ya. to save you six pages long read lol = you have done mixed substrate cycling and the consideration goes to the live rock portion, the dry rock portion is inert but will take on all required bac in 30 days. no need to add bacteria or ammonia, because you paid extra for the live rock portion, and you don't want to stress small creatures that make it cost more. classic when to add ammonia and when to withhold scenario, yours is withhold.

if you must add something, add the bacteria portion, leave ammonia out. very hard thing to do agreed, so we did six pages on why

Your cycle is already done once you gain a zero ammonia reading and sustain that...where its not leaking due to lost animals after shipping any longer. we have a portion in there dedicated to what to do with shipped group B live rock, its change water CPR it. adding ammonia is the opposite of what to do.

The dry rock portion does not matter, other than if its the type that should be pre cured before even being cycled, aka marco rocks though those are less common nowadays. your live portion carries the decision, and its no ammonia for live rock in that thread.

the easiest thing you could ever do is rinse your sandbed, have a cloudless sandbed not any possibility of clouding if disturbed, then make sure your live rock is testing zero ammonia for several days, and when its all stable add some corals.

 

[Bouncingsoul39]

Api saltwater test kit. Yes 4 tiered canister with in line skimmer keeps the top clean imo

I believe what you are referring to is a surface skimmer. That is used for removing the film on the water's surface in freshwater tanks. We have a very important piece of equipment we use for saltwater tanks called a Protein Skimmer. Since you have all that rock in your tank, you can take all the media out of your canister filter entirely as it will only cause you water quality problems in the long run. Once all the baskets are empty, you can add a bag or two of carbon, chemi-pure or purigen for chemical filtration which is helpful. Or, just ditch the canister all together.
Sounds like you don't have a sump so you should check out adding a hang on the back protein skimmer.

 

[mcarroll]

This goes onto my "don't like the rotting meat method" list.

@rsljr81 He means a surface skimmer, not a protein skimmer. (Waited too long to hit send! )

@billswin99 Have you tested your phosphates yet? If PO4 at least registers as detectable on a drip test, then you're fine. If it looks very close to zero, then I'd try to get a better test. Do you know if there's any phosphate media in the canister filter? If PO4 has been artificially removed from the system, that could be a minot problem. (With an easy fix.)

Are nitrites still showing 5+? How close to zero is that on your test? Can you get the LFS to verify this? Nitrites is my only real problem here – nitrites will kill things.

Assuming things are otherwise going normally (which remains to be seen), water changes and time will eat up the nitrates with no further effort on your part. No problems – nitrates don't kill anything.

 

[billswin99]

Thanks for all the replies.

So in the canister I have:

Filter media white/blue
White porous ceramic rings/ purigen
Carbon/phosguard (phosphates were high)
Bioballs

Remove all?

I also have 2 850gph power heads in the tank.

I have looked at the protein skimmers but they look terrible hanging off the back of the tank. This is in my living room tons of traffic. Any other options?

I don't plan to do coral just fowlr tank.

Tank was getting yellow looking so added the purigen and it cleaned it up.

Will add the bio-spira without the ammonia but wouldn't it die due to the ammonia reading 0? Also worried the nitrites and nitrates might kill it since it's off the chart.

 

[rsljr81]

Do u have room for a sump? I would clean out canister, prob have a lot of detritus on the bottom. If u have room in the stand you can put one with skimmer. You can go skimmer less but you'll have to perform religous water changes.

 

[rsljr81]

Fresh carbon should help with yellow water.

 

[Hubtech]

It sounds like you need to be patient. If your tank has cycled ammonia, you just have to wait for it to process nitrite. Other than having a ton of actual live rock... there's just no point in rushing your cycle. hurry up and wait.

 

[billswin99]

Can I put a protein skimmer underneath without a sump? I will clean out the canister should I just remove the bio balls since I have tons of rock?

 

[mcarroll]

phosguard (phosphates were high

Nutrients are never high during a cycle – whatever is there is needed to get your rock to mature a meaningful and stable microbial community. So, using PO4 media may have stalled things out by starving the microbes at the base of your cycle from adequate amounts of a basic nutrient.

The Filter
I'd remove the PO4 media now....use the opportunity to re-pack the canister as needed. I'd run it empty or at most with some easy to clean (or cheap to replace) mechanical filter media.

The Water
I'd at least consider replacing the dissolved PO4 that was removed from the water by dosing Seachem or Brightwell PO4 fertilizer (or similar). Some nitrate fertilizer may be required in addition to fully undo any damage/setback.

Not having coral doesn't change too much about the tank in terms of nutrients.....SOME nutrients are still required at all times to support growth of the microbial community on your live rock. It's a lot lot more than just bacteria...or it needs to be a lot more in order for you to have a healthy stable tank.

 

[Hubtech]

you can't really have the skimmer underneath without a sump. it either needs to HOB or be in the sump. or hang on the sump. I'm not sure the pumps were designed to deal with that much head.