Trouble keeping SPS alive in my tank

[Lionsreef]

I reaching out for advice as I just can't seem to keep SPS alive very long in my tank. I've placed over 20 SPS frags in my tank over the past year + and have only managed to keep 4 of them alive. They initially turn brown and then RTN over night it seems a few weeks later.

I've had great success with all of my LPS corals. ACANS and chalices seem to thrive.

I'm wondering if it is my lighting, flow, dipping procedure or even my mounting. I always cut the frag plug off immediately when I bring a new coral home and glue it to the rock work with gel gorilla glue as I'm afraid of transferring pests from the plug and wonder if this could be stressing it too much.

A little about my tank.... I have a 38 gallon bowfront tank with a hang on the back Remora skimmer and no sump. For lighting I have a single Hydra 26HD sitting about 8 inches off the water. My blues/violets are set to 77%, UV at 37% , whites at 17% and red/green at 2%. For flow i have a Vortech MP10 set at max random plus a 600 gph Hydor Coralia .

The tank itself has now been up for a little over 18 months started with live rock and sand. I feel that I watch it very carefully and have kept it stable. My parameters are
Salinity - 1.025
Nitrates - 25
Phosphate - 0.05 using the Hanna ULR Phosphorus meter
Calcium - 420-460
Alkalinity - 9.5

I use IO Reef Crystals for all water changes (20% every other weekend). The only thing I dose is Red Sea B for keeping a stable ALK. I keep my Alk a little higher than most people because my nitrates and phosphates are a bit high due to having a dwarf Zebra lionfish, one maroon clownish and a diamond goby.

I don't have a PAR meter but place the SPS frags high on my rock work in line with the flow from my MP10.

Any observations or suggestions would be appreciated as I'm frustrated that I have only been able to get 4 SPS frags to survive out of all that i'v tried.

 

[Reeferdood]

If I were to guess, I would say the elevated nitrate would be what is browning them out. The corals likely came from a system with substantially lower levels before going in your system. SPS do like nutrients but yours are likely too high for them, thus causing them to expel their zooxanthellae.

 

[Lionsreef]

Thanks. I can't really do much to reduce the nitrates since I have a dwarf lionfish so do I have any other options?

BTW, it seems the acros that I did manage to keep alive are all primarily green in color. Does that make sense to everyone given the higher levels of nitrates in my tank? Are green acros generally easier to keep?

 

[ctpeasy]

Thanks. I can't really do much to reduce the nitrates since I have a dwarf lionfish so do I have any other options?

BTW, it seems the acros that I did manage to keep alive are all primarily green in color. Does that make sense to everyone given the higher levels of nitrates in my tank? Are green acros generally easier to keep?

Nutrient export is something that can be addressed a few different ways, skimming more aggressively, GFO, Chaeto reactor, algae turf scrubber, macro algae in refugium, water changes, feeding variation. Find out what fits your needs best and implement it SLOWLY.

 

[ksfulk]

Have you started all of your frags up high? Sometimes the amount of light coming off of a LED fixture can seem like its not very much, but can be pushing out some pretty intense PAR. An alternate experiement would be to start a frag or two low in the tank (sandbed or low rack) and see how they acclimate over a week or more.

Another concern is what type of sps are you putting into your tank and what is surviving. If you are putting in all *wild* acros, or spaths, then the high fatality could be from the corals just not making the transition to aquaria very well. Ive been keeping sticks for a long time and I still cant keep a spath to save my life. If everything that survives in your tank is a monti or a birdsnest, then I would lean more towards the reasoning that your nutrients are too high for the acros liking. If everything you are sticking in the tank is a smooth skin or deep water acro, then its more likely that the corals are recieving too much light overall.

Just some thoughts - a few pictures of the tank and survivors might help address the problem as well

 

[Neoalchemist]

Depending on your rock work and the specific corals one mp10 might not be enough flow. I'm always surprised to see sps that I believe are getting blasted growing even farther into direct flow. Also I believe anyone attempting to grow sps should be keeping an eye on magnesium. In my experience Reef crystals are often inconsistent on the magnesium levels. Always keep an eye on sealed magnets. A corroding magnet will cause similar problems.

 

[Lionsreef]

Have you started all of your frags up high? Sometimes the amount of light coming off of a LED fixture can seem like its not very much, but can be pushing out some pretty intense PAR.

Normally I will start them on a frag rack about 1/3rd up from the bottom of the tank and then slowly move it upwards over a couple weeks.

 

[Lionsreef]

Just some thoughts - a few pictures of the tank and survivors might help address the problem as well

Here are some survivors I've got. This first coral has been in my tank almost a year now.

 

[Mattrg02]

Turn up your led channels!!!!! I am going through this as well. I just got ahold of a par meter from my awesome LFS and checked my par. I had my corals sitting in par between 50-80 this whole time. I have the hydra26hd also.

Dropped the light to 8 in over water and set blue channels as high as they would go and now I’ve got 200-400 par at the top of the rocks. I set acclimation mode for one month.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

I had the same problem with my hydras and sps withering away. I didn’t have a par meter but I was afraid of cooking them. I finally ordered a par meter and my tank had a couple spots where the par was 200 but the majority of it was around 100. The majority of acros nutrition comes from photosynthesis, so they’ll slowly starve under low par. That seems to lead to stress which then leads to stn and rtn. Just my observation from what I went through. 10 years ago I had a jbj 24 gallon nano-cube that acros grew like crazy and I really had no idea what I was doing. I didn’t test for nitrates or phosphates. The only thing I would test and dose for was calcium and alk once a month. I never even cared much about salinity and never dipped any frags. I was told by lfs employee the more alk and cal the better. So when I would test alk and cal at the beginning of the month it would be 7,8 or maybe 9. I would then boost it up to 12 or even 14 sometimes. Didn’t bother the acros at all. I now believe it’s because I had a 250watt metal halide on that tiny tank. The acros never bleached or browned, stn or rtn. I sadly lost everything during hurricane Ike because we lost power for 13 days. I had a generator but gas for that generator was hard to find the first 3 days.
Last year I got back into sps and now I check everything everyday and could barely keep acros alive much less grow. Got my hydras intensity up and everything is looking much better. It’s a little concerning with all these acro dying threads and all the victims have Hydras.

 

[Mattrg02]

I had the same problem with my hydras and sps withering away. I didn’t have a par meter but I was afraid of cooking them. I finally ordered a par meter and my tank had a couple spots where the par was 200 but the majority of it was around 100. The majority of acros nutrition comes from photosynthesis, so they’ll slowly starve under low par. That seems to lead to stress which then leads to stn and rtn. Just my observation from what I went through. 10 years ago I had a jbj 24 gallon nano-cube that acros grew like crazy and I really had no idea what I was doing. I didn’t test for nitrates or phosphates. The only thing I would test and dose for was calcium and alk once a month. I never even cared much about salinity. I was told by lfs employee the more alk and cal the better. So when I would test alk and cal at the beginning of the month it would be 7,8 or maybe 9. I would then boost it up to 12 or even 14 sometimes. Didn’t bother the acros at all. I now believe it’s because I had a 250watt metal halide on that tiny tank. The acros never bleached or browned, stn or rtn. I sadly lost everything during hurricane Ike because we lost power for 13 days. I had a generator but gas for that generator was hard to find the first 3 days.
Last year I got back into sps and now I check everything everyday and could barely keep acros alive much less grow. Got my hydras intensity up and everything is looking much better. It’s a little concerning with all these acro dying threads and all the victims have Hydras.

AI hydras are capable of a lot of par, but the channels need to be turned up to max to get there and lights need to be close to water.

My 34g display is small enough that I can now get 300-400par, in the middle, from one hydra26hd. Larger tanks will definitely need more than one or a hydra52hd.

I went so long before finding out because everyone talks about how strong leds are. A par meter is extremely revealing.

While my par is now fine for acroporas, the led fixture isn’t going to last for years and years turned up like this. The fixture gets much warmer now, which leds hate. I’ll probably have to upgrade to a hydra52hd. If my acroporas make a comeback, I’ll probably upgrade to a hydra52hd.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

AI hydras are capable of a lot of par, but the channels need to be turned up to max to get there and lights need to be close to water.

My 34g display is small enough that I can now get 300-400par, in the middle, from one hydra26hd. Larger tanks will definitely need more than one or a hydra52hd.

I went so long before finding out because everyone talks about how strong leds are. A par meter is extremely revealing.

While my par is now fine for acroporas, the led fixture isn’t going to last for years and years turned up like this. The fixture gets much warmer now, which leds hate. I’ll probably have to upgrade to a hydra52hd.

I’m the guy who told you to check your par in your sps dying/hydra thread. My display is a 50 gallon cube and I had a 52 hd on it and I couldn’t get good spread with adequate par with 1 52 hd so now I have 2 52’s. If you look at AI signature section most of those sps tanks use multiple fixtures with medium settings to get better spread.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

AI hydras are capable of a lot of par, but the channels need to be turned up to max to get there and lights need to be close to water.

My 34g display is small enough that I can now get 300-400par, in the middle, from one hydra26hd. Larger tanks will definitely need more than one or a hydra52hd.

I went so long before finding out because everyone talks about how strong leds are. A par meter is extremely revealing.

While my par is now fine for acroporas, the led fixture isn’t going to last for years and years turned up like this. The fixture gets much warmer now, which leds hate. I’ll probably have to upgrade to a hydra52hd. If my acroporas make a comeback, I’ll probably upgrade to a hydra52hd.

You’d be better off getting another 26 than a single 52. 26’s are capable of 90 watts each while a single 52 only puts out 135, and that produces a localized hot spot of 750-900 par in the top/center in order to get 250 on the bottom half/sides. My 2 52’s are now set at 65 watts each and I have 350-450 all across the top half and 250-350 all across the bottom half. You could get those same numbers with another 26.

 

[Mattrg02]

I’m the guy who told you to check your par in your sps dying/hydra thread. My display is a 50 gallon cube and I had a 52 hd on it and I couldn’t get good spread with adequate par with 1 52 hd so now I have 2 52’s. If you look at AI signature section most of those sps tanks use multiple fixtures with medium settings to get better spread.

You were right, par was way too low! What are the dimensions of your tank? A 52HD should put out quite a wallop.

While my 26hd, at this distance, doesn’t have quite the spread, I actually like a few cooler spots, further out. I have some lower light acros that are supposed to be happy in the 200PAR range. I’d consider going to the 52HD just to not have my blue channels maxed out.

 

[Mattrg02]

You’d be better off getting another 26 than a single 52. 26’s are capable of 90 watts each while a single 52 only puts out 135, and that produces a localized hot spot of 750-900 par in the top/center in order to get 250 on the bottom half/sides. My 2 52’s are now set at 65 watts each and I have 350-450 all across the top half and 250-350 all across the bottom half. You could get those same numbers with another 26.

Another 26hd, with the rail kit, might be just what the Dr ordered then.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

24x24x20 cube. The single 52 does putt out a lot but it’s too hot in the center to get 200 on the bottom and sides. My tank has 40 small acros/frags from top to bottom and side to side. I need the better spread. Knowing what I know I would have bought 2 26’s instead the single 52 when I started this tank.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Another 26hd, with the rail kit, might be just what the Dr ordered then.

What kind of Dr are you?

 

[Mattrg02]

What kind of Dr are you?

Not a Dr, even better, and Engineer ;-)

We need a PSA about these hydra leds.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Not a Dr, even better, and Engineer ;-)

We need a PSA about these hydra leds.

I’m still learning. The BRS TV is great but the info on hydras is off. Most hydra users think they’re equal/similar to radions because they’re owned by the same company, but they’re completely different. Parameters, reflectors, etc are all different. Radions have a UV setting but not a Violet setting. You have to be careful with the UV. Not that you can’t turn it up high slowly over a long period of time, acros for some reason get stressed when they go from other lighting to hydras.
Did you know when you have your schedule on your phone you put 2 fingers on the left and right of the screen and slide left or right to change the time? You can also hold 2 fingers on the top and bottom and either reduce or increase the intensity. Now I don’t have to break out a calculator to find the perfect channel percentage/power ratio.