Trying to wrap my head around recommended return flow

[dvlpr]

Hi all,

I'm trying to reduce water noise in my RS525XL (v3 sump) and one of the biggest noise makers is the water going over the small barrier and down into the filter socks.

From what I can see, reducing flow rate should eliminate that. My pump is a Tunze Silence 1073.06 and per manual it can be adjusted between 2500 and 5000 l/h. RS recommends 4000 l/h. I also have 2 MP40s running in there. So, I guess my question is - can I try reducing the pump flow to the minimum 2500 l/h, seeing that the MP40s are also stirring the water? Or is that recommendation of 4000 l/h means the water going through the pipework?

 

[RocketEngineer]

That lower number is probably fine for a sump. How new is the setup? Newer systems are noisier than ones that have a biofilm.

 

[dvlpr]

That lower number is probably fine for a sump. How new is the setup? Newer systems are noisier than ones that have a biofilm.

Thanks! It's still cycling 3 weeks with water.

 

[BeMoto]

I put the bubble reducer foam pads in the cups to reduce the noise. Not using socks at the moment since I'm also cycling. Flow rate didn't seem to effect the noise at all.

 

[K7BMG]

You will just have to play with it.
Flowing water makes noise for sure, how much will also change almost daily.
Sump levels change due to evaporation, slowing or faster flow.
Flow changes occur with buildup of slime and particles, then you clean everything and another adjustment. Will have to be made.
Soon you will become familure with the different sounds and what they mean.
There are filter sock silensers available

 

[dvlpr]

I put the bubble reducer foam pads in the cups to reduce the noise. Not using socks at the moment since I'm also cycling. Flow rate didn't seem to effect the noise at all.

Yes, I had a similar suggestion elsewhere - to put a piece of floss filter just above the cups/socks area, as that should help spread the water more evenly, reducing the waterfall effect. Haven't tried that yet.

Also thinking of removing socks altogether and buying 2 more cups instead and putting filter material in them.

You will just have to play with it.
Flowing water makes noise for sure, how much will also change almost daily.
Sump levels change due to evaporation, slowing or faster flow.
Flow changes occur with buildup of slime and particles, then you clean everything and another adjustment.

I've been playing with it for the last 3 weeks, waiting for the cycle Water levels do change overnight (early morning is different to evening, but seem to even out during the day).

Well, a few ideas to try...

What about the flow rate? Do you run your pumps at max, or try to adjust to "recommended" throughput or run at minimum?

 

[K7BMG]

I am using the Triton method and that method wants tank turn over at 10 times per hour.
So I should have a flow of 2400 GPH through the system.
My pump and all gives me around 1350 GPH.
So my system falls short of the recomendation but I can live with that.

It will be noisier without the socks in place

 

[dvlpr]

I am using the Triton method and that method wants tank turn over at 10 times per hour.
So I should have a flow of 2400 GPH through the system.
My pump and all gives me around 1350 GPH.
So my system falls short of the recomendation but I can live with that.

I haven't read up on the triton method much, but it may be close to what I'm aiming to do - mostly natural. My pump can turn my whole tank around 10 times (even more) at max, so perhaps it's overpowered.

It will be noisier without the socks in place

The idea is to replace them with cups that are basically overfilled with filter floss, so that water hits the floss first and there's no waterfall. I'd need to try it to see if it works of course

 

[Bethany Yates]

A longer downspout on the output to the filter socks also works well. For my system, the outflow enters the sump under the sump water level to flow through the socks and I found that makes a big difference in sound.

 

[dvlpr]

A longer downspout on the output to the filter socks also works well. For my system, the outflow enters the sump under the sump water level to flow through the socks and I found that makes a big difference in sound.

It's a standard RS sump - water also enters it under the water level, but then hits a wall, goes up and splashes into the socks. Perhaps if there was more distance between the down pipe and that wall, it would be quieter, but I guess they wanted to put in a bigger refugium and compromised on that. Although I haven't seen their previous sumps, so this is only a wild guess.

 

[Brycnz]

Maybe you can put a pice of pipe on the over flow so it falls a lot closer to the filter sock that what I have done and the get some sort of sponge and place in the top now I can’t hear a thing also helps as don’t get salt build up on the side of my stand from the splashing of the water

 

[dvlpr]

Maybe you can put a pice of pipe on the over flow so it falls a lot closer to the filter sock that what I have done and the get some sort of sponge and place in the top now I can’t hear a thing also helps as don’t get salt build up on the side of my stand from the splashing of the water

Yes, a sponge on top is what I think I'll try next, as that has been suggested a few times now, so maybe that's the magic trick

I just realized that I should've started this thread with some images/videos that I took...

This is the water level from the side going over the separator wall:

and this is waterfall effect...

In the images above, I actually have my return pump turned all the way down (to 2500 l/h) - when it was at 5000 l/h, the effect was much more dramatic

 

[Brycnz]

Just have to rember some pumps might say 2500l/h 9 times out of ten you will be looking at **** load less than that because of head pressure and how big of pipe you are using like I have a jebo pump 10,000 L/h but with it pumping up 2.5m drops to 3,000l/h off the top of my head even know pump is turned right up it’s the head pressure that kills it. So just make sure you even if you turn your pump down make sure you still have the flow you need

 

[dvlpr]

Yeah, I'm not sure about turning it down, tbh. I just did this is as a test. Tomorrow I'll grab a sponge from my LFS, put it on top of the socks, turn the pump all the way back up and see what happens...

 

[BeMoto]

This is what I'm currently doing

 

[dohc97]

You do not have to go with manufacturer specifications, my sump set up is different but I'm only running 3x flow, my choice. Find a pressure chart for your pump and see what you really are pumping and per those pictures it certainly looks like you need sponges in your socks or replace them with cups

 

[Brycnz]

The only problem with putting sponge in there is if you forget to keep them clean and they block slightly will the water leave rise and over flow back into the sump or onto your floor???
My sump I put the filter socks right below the drains so the pipe sits in the filter sock about 1-2in then I just put a small bit of sponge around and can’t hear a thing. And I’m running 2 return pumps into a 300Gal tank and that returns back into two filter socks 4x4in and I have a lot of flow as I have to main 1 1/4 drain pipes I’ll post some photos after my lock down is finished here in New Zealand

 

[dvlpr]

This is what I'm currently doing

Looks good!

You do not have to go with manufacturer specifications, my sump set up is different but I'm only running 3x flow, my choice. Find a pressure chart for your pump and see what you really are pumping and per those pictures it certainly looks like you need sponges in your socks or replace them with cups

I do have a pressure chart, but not sure how to read it I took a screenshot of the manual:

I understand it goes down with the height, but height from what? The return outlet in the DT?

The only problem with putting sponge in there is if you forget to keep them clean and they block slightly will the water leave rise and over flow back into the sump or onto your floor???
My sump I put the filter socks right below the drains so the pipe sits in the filter sock about 1-2in then I just put a small bit of sponge around and can’t hear a thing. And I’m running 2 return pumps into a 300Gal tank and that returns back into two filter socks 4x4in and I have a lot of flow as I have to main 1 1/4 drain pipes I’ll post some photos after my lock down is finished here in New Zealand

I wouldn't be able to put socks right below the drains without heavy modification which I'm not yet ready to do with my first ever marine tank but I see your logic if I had a custom solution.

 

[Brycnz]

So the head mean how high from the pump to the return outlet in your tank so if you grab a tape measure put it at the level of your pump and to the top of the tank that will give you a ruff idea but will Be be affected by the size pipe you run

 

[dvlpr]

So the head mean how high from the pump to the return outlet in your tank so if you grab a tape measure put it at the level of your pump and to the top of the tank that will give you a ruff idea but will Be be affected by the size pipe you run

Thanks, that's what I thought! So, for me that's about 1.2 meters, giving me max output of roughly 3200 l/h then. I probably should crank the pump back up then, since I'm running it at the minimum flow now, which would not be enough...