TTM is it really the best!?

[Jlobes]

Ich has been reported to live up to 3 months without a host.
.

and thats why TTM is so great!! thanks for making that more clear.

Any QT should be 10' away, not just TTM tanks.

 

[merlberg]

I've QT'd countless fish using TTM, and have not lost a one unless some other disease popped up on me. And every single fish I've successfully used TTM on has never shown symptoms of ich once placed in a DT. So you might say I'm a firm believer.

Now, I will say it is work and can be a PITA sometimes (like when you are short on time.) TTM is NOT for the lazy or those who like to procrastinate. The 72 hr rule is a hard rule when it comes to making TTM work.

Ok i read the ttm and it states to wash everything with vinegar. If I were to use this method what do i do with the polyfiber in my hob filter? Do i throw that away and what about the bioballs? Can u just rinse those off and use them again?

 

[KingTriton]

Removed

 

[KingTriton]

Ok i read the ttm and it states to wash everything with vinegar. If I were to use this method what do i do with the polyfiber in my hob filter? Do i throw that away and what about the bioballs? Can u just rinse those off and use them again?

I would skip the polyfilter and bioballs in a TTM tank. They're just not needed. Also ich dies after 24 hours of exposure to air. If you choose to use a solution I think bleach would be the better option imo.

 

[KingTriton]

Removed

 

[merlberg]

I would skip the polyfilter and bioballs in a TTM tank. They're just not needed. Also ich dies after 24 hours of exposure to air. If you choose to use a solution I think bleach would be the better option imo.

Wow really so that means i leave my hob filter empty?

 

[Naiad]

Just started using it now. I am really liking it. The fish seem unphased by the transfers. Had a tang covered in ich and by the second transfer it was gone.

 

[Breakthecycle2]

I have not tried it yet, and honestly, I don't think I will. The thought of having to take fish out and put into a new tank every three days, worrying about ammonia spikes, water changes and cleaning each tank in between, it just seems like so much. I do water changes every other day already on my QT and once a week on the DT. That alone is draining the heck out of me.

 

[NYAquatic]

Let me apologize in advance for any offence anyone might take from this reply.
But, TTM is one of my pet peeves.

IMHO it is a TERRIBLE, AWEFUL, DREADFUL idea.
Unfortunately, there's no way to put that genie back in the bottle. If I could, I would.
It is bad and misguided in so many ways, hard to know where to begin.

1) Yes, if done properly, a BIG IF, it is 100% effective in ridding a fish of ich. But it's useless if the fish has any other pathogens. Why all the effort and stress targeting ich? Ich is one parasite that's relatively easy to spot and cure. In a stable QT tank with decent water, a fish should NEVER die from ich. Observe and treat with copper if necessary.

2) It's not that stressful? Are you kidding me? Repetedly catching and transferring a fish from one uncycled tank to another is not just stressful, it's barbaric. And medicating with Prazi or other at the same time. Craziness. The key to adapthing a new fish to life in your aquarium is minimizing stress, not doing everything possible to stress the fish to death.

3) So why do people keep doing it? (remember the apology above) In my opinion, hobbyists have gotten much to used to fish dying in QT. It's very easy to blame the supplier, and, since most suppliers now give 14 days, you get to fool around with different things on someone else's dime. Fish dies during TTM, must have been a bad fish from a bad supplier. Refund/credit please. No harm no foul, except the poor dead fish.


PLEASE DO NOT DO TTM. IT'S A TERRIBLE IDEA.

 

[Breakthecycle2]

Let me apologize in advance for any offence anyone might take from this reply.
But, TTM is one of my pet peeves.

IMHO it is a TERRIBLE, AWEFUL, DREADFUL idea.
Unfortunately, there's no way to put that genie back in the bottle. If I could, I would.
It is bad and misguided in so many ways, hard to know where to begin.

1) Yes, if done properly, a BIG IF, it is 100% effective in ridding a fish of ich. But it's useless if the fish has any other pathogens. Why all the effort and stress targeting ich? Ich is one parasite that's relatively easy to spot and cure. In a stable QT tank with decent water, a fish should NEVER die from ich. Observe and treat with copper if necessary.

2) It's not that stressful? Are you kidding me? Repetedly catching and transferring a fish from one uncycled tank to another is not just stressful, it's barbaric. And medicating with Prazi or other at the same time. Craziness. The key to adapthing a new fish to life in your aquarium is minimizing stress, not doing everything possible to stress the fish to death.

3) So why do people keep doing it? (remember the apology above) In my opinion, hobbyists have gotten much to used to fish dying in QT. It's very easy to blame the supplier, and, since most suppliers now give 14 days, you get to fool around with different things on someone else's dime. Fish dies during TTM, must have been a bad fish from a bad supplier. Refund/credit please. No harm no foul, except the poor dead fish.


PLEASE DO NOT DO TTM. IT'S A TERRIBLE IDEA.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

BTW, that fish I just bought from you will be my first experiment with TTM

JK

 

[Naiad]

Let me apologize in advance for any offence anyone might take from this reply.
But, TTM is one of my pet peeves.

IMHO it is a TERRIBLE, AWEFUL, DREADFUL idea.
Unfortunately, there's no way to put that genie back in the bottle. If I could, I would.
It is bad and misguided in so many ways, hard to know where to begin.

1) Yes, if done properly, a BIG IF, it is 100% effective in ridding a fish of ich. But it's useless if the fish has any other pathogens. Why all the effort and stress targeting ich? Ich is one parasite that's relatively easy to spot and cure. In a stable QT tank with decent water, a fish should NEVER die from ich. Observe and treat with copper if necessary.

2) It's not that stressful? Are you kidding me? Repetedly catching and transferring a fish from one uncycled tank to another is not just stressful, it's barbaric. And medicating with Prazi or other at the same time. Craziness. The key to adapthing a new fish to life in your aquarium is minimizing stress, not doing everything possible to stress the fish to death.

3) So why do people keep doing it? (remember the apology above) In my opinion, hobbyists have gotten much to used to fish dying in QT. It's very easy to blame the supplier, and, since most suppliers now give 14 days, you get to fool around with different things on someone else's dime. Fish dies during TTM, must have been a bad fish from a bad supplier. Refund/credit please. No harm no foul, except the poor dead fish.


PLEASE DO NOT DO TTM. IT'S A TERRIBLE IDEA.

I would never ttm a fish I have just gotten in. They should all have a 1 to 2 week observation period before you begin any "standard" qt treatment. You may have a far nastier disease than ich that needs immediate treatment.
I do deal with a lot of sensitive fish however that could never handle a copper treatment. This method offers a treatment when there never was one before. That poor little dragonet I got from you didn't even make a prazi deworming and I know many of my wrasses would not fair any better.

 

[Humblefish]

An interesting thought/question, for more sensitive fish, or those not eating/settling in, any benefit or seriosu downside to keeping them in the first tank 4 or 5 days? Obviously, would need to keep a careful eye on ammonia and the TTM count would start on the first actual transfer, but might it be helpful for the finicky folks? Not saying this is what I intend to do, just a thought I had and I like brainstorming/communicating.

IME; Being caught every 3 days doesn't really have much of an impact on their appetite. I use a square colander or fine mesh net, and exercise patience to ensure the fish isn't damaged during the transfer.

Ich has been reported to live up to 3 months without a host.

Can you provide documentation to support this? The most recent information I have is it can take up to 72 days for all the theronts to be released from the tomonts. Colorni and Burgess 1997 study, mentioned here: https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa164

Ok i read the ttm and it states to wash everything with vinegar. If I were to use this method what do i do with the polyfiber in my hob filter? Do i throw that away and what about the bioballs? Can u just rinse those off and use them again?

I wouldn't use a polyfiber or HOB filter whilst doing TTM. Just use an airstone cranked all the way up to provide gas exchange or maybe a small powerhead pointed towards the surface.

 

[saltyhog]

Let me apologize in advance for any offence anyone might take from this reply.
But, TTM is one of my pet peeves.

IMHO it is a TERRIBLE, AWEFUL, DREADFUL idea.
Unfortunately, there's no way to put that genie back in the bottle. If I could, I would.
It is bad and misguided in so many ways, hard to know where to begin.

1) Yes, if done properly, a BIG IF, it is 100% effective in ridding a fish of ich. But it's useless if the fish has any other pathogens. Why all the effort and stress targeting ich? Ich is one parasite that's relatively easy to spot and cure. In a stable QT tank with decent water, a fish should NEVER die from ich. Observe and treat with copper if necessary.

2) It's not that stressful? Are you kidding me? Repetedly catching and transferring a fish from one uncycled tank to another is not just stressful, it's barbaric. And medicating with Prazi or other at the same time. Craziness. The key to adapthing a new fish to life in your aquarium is minimizing stress, not doing everything possible to stress the fish to death.

3) So why do people keep doing it? (remember the apology above) In my opinion, hobbyists have gotten much to used to fish dying in QT. It's very easy to blame the supplier, and, since most suppliers now give 14 days, you get to fool around with different things on someone else's dime. Fish dies during TTM, must have been a bad fish from a bad supplier. Refund/credit please. No harm no foul, except the poor dead fish.


PLEASE DO NOT DO TTM. IT'S A TERRIBLE IDEA.

Michael, I respect you a lot. I have several fish I bought from you including a beautiful Diamond Tail Flasher wrasse. However, I could not possibly disagree with you more.

I have yet to lose a single fish in 2 years during TTM. I have been able to cure/save several fish with Ich including one bought from you. I've observed my fish after transfer and watch them eat vigorously within minutes of the transfer. TTM is by FAR the easiest method of treating ich. Hypo is very tricky even with an ATO, not to mention the hypo resistant strains that have been identified. Copper? 4 weeks of poisen is less stressful than than swiftly moving from one tank to another? I've had several fish die during copper treatment. Our hobby test kits for copper are woefully inadequate for measuring levels. Not to mention the difficulty when water changes are necessary during copper. Almost any time you want you can read stories from people who had treatment failures with copper.


This idea that "stress" kills fish is a little bit perplexing to me. How exactly does it kill? What scientific evidence is there of that? What is the physiology in play? How do you measure "stress" in our fish? I wonder if we tend to anthropomorphize with our charges a little.

Disease and malnutrion are the most common killers of fish in our systems IMO.

 

[Humblefish]

Wonderfully stated @saltyhog. Could not agree with you more.

 

[Sabellafella]

You wanna kno what kinda stress kills a fish? Being shipped in a bag of its own urine halfway across the country in freezing temperatures in a cup of water

 

[Humblefish]

You wanna kno what kinda stress kills a fish? Being shipped in a bag of its own urine halfway across the country in freezing temperatures in a cup of water

And even then, it's the toxins contained in the water which will ultimately kill the fish not stress. IMO; watching a fish in QT stresses out the human more than the fish in QT.

 

[Jlobes]

thanks everybody for the replies, info and considerations. I do have QT setup to observe and treat prophylactically, I also have enough equip to do TTM.

Honestly, it strange that so many topics in the hobby have such mixed answers. Just about any question, will yield similar results of people for/against, people vehemently opposed and those that swear by it and nothing else. seems QT is no different and also a highly debated/considered topic and no "one" way is the best. Ive honestly had vendors respond to me with responses ranging from, I do it myself to dont even think about it.

Im still considering TTM, but have not committed as of yet. seems if the fish is active and eating, that a couple transfers shouldnt be too stressful/terrible. additionally, I can understand that if the fish is stressed, not eating and fairly inactive, one may want to wait/reconsider starting the TTM.

 

[Jlobes]

well. not sure if its "the" best, but have been having no issues using TTM on the borb. today was the 4th transfer, used prazi in the 3rd(forgot to dose in 2nd) and will probably prazi one more time before entry into the main QT or will prazi in there. No serious concerns/worries for now though. hes eating, gaining more color, and is quite active. thanks all for your responses and advice.