Turbo Snail Tanked my Tank?

[James Tucker]

Point of Post: I wanted to know if anyone had a similar situation and if they were able to correct it without a complete teardown and rebuild like I am going to do tomorrow.


I've had a 90-gallon tank (20-gallon sump) going for over 4 years with nitrates sub 20. Until Irma. I lost power for 3 days and I did not have a generator. That left me with 2 corals, 2 fish, and all my snails and crabs alive. Somehow, the clean-up crew all made it. The tank was fine after I stabilized it. For the last year nitrates have been sub 5 and everything else was good and ammonia was/is zero. Until 2 weeks ago.


I had a large turbo snail about the size of a golf ball die that I've had for years. I did not catch it for a few days since he died way in the back of the tank, and the crabs didn't touch it. The smell...


I removed it and checked all my metrics. Everything was/is good except for nitrates. They were 80+. Even after 4x 30% water changes over the last 2 weeks, they are still 80+.


I don't believe the snail is the reason for my continued issue, but I wonder if it jump-started something that I'm not quite realizing?


I have a really bad feeling, so tomorrow I'm going to dismantle the tank and separate everything into smaller tanks. I plan to do some investigating while I am waiting for the rebuild to cycle.


Note: I have an inverter generator now. Lesson learned.

 

[sfin52]

I doubt the snail caused a massive nitrate explosion. Getting the snail out if the nitrate was in the rock.

Did you do a water change, retest the water. I would check the water test and check the water going into the tank .My guess is the new water.

 

[James Tucker]

Thanks for the reply.

I thought the same thing when my nitrates remained high after the first change. So I validated my testing kit against known good RODI fresh water and it all came back as 0 across the board.

I then tested the next 2 water sets and they all had 0 nitrates, 0 nitrites, and 0 ammonia. The last change I got from a different source and I still had the same result. I’m pretty confident the issue is in my tank and not the water I am adding.

I think the nitrates are so high that it is hitting the max value the testing kit can provide and whatever is causing the ammonia that is being converted is so bad that it builds up faster than I can mitigate. So I’m going to take my stock out to save them and start over. I haven’t felt right about the tank since the hurricane anyways.

When I break it all down and separate it, I think I’ll find what caused it. There is a nutrient issue somewhere.

 

[ScottBrew]

Since we are "neighbors", Dunedin here, had a similar event with power out after Irma. I'm still wondering what Duke Energy would do if we actually had a hurricane pass through Pinellas? Sorry, off topic...

I would continue with the water changes, maybe even larger changes, like 50-60% if you have the ability to store and mix more water.

What kind of test kit are you using? I found huge discrepancies between the API kit I was using and a Salifert test kit I bought to test against. I thought nitrates were in the 30-40 range, after retesting, found they were well above the 80 range. Took 6-7 large water changes to get them back down.

If you do break it down, keep your rock submerged in SW or you risk starting to cycle the tank again. Change your substrate out and clean everything up.

 

[James Tucker]

Dunedin. That makes me want to go to the Black Pearl again. Great resturant.

I'm using an API test kit. I was going to switch to a different one when I reboot. I'll need to do a bunch of research to pick the right one. I was thinking about going with two different kits based on research and seeing what they show me.

This will be a complete tear down and redo. Im going to rip everything out and clean the tank. I'm thinking about even a new tank at the rate. I'm strongly considering buying new rock as well as doing a 3 month quarantine process on my remaining fish and coral while I wait for it to cycle completely.

The rock is a hodgepodge that built up over 18 years as I moved around in Tampa. I feel that continuing to use for the rebuild might be a mistake.

 

[dantimdad]

I don't think a tear down is necessary.

The rock being 18 years old is not the culprit. PaulB has rock that has been in his tank for over 40 years.

I think you need to add some Dr. Tim's and stay the course. 10% water changes each week and don't add anything new.

I really think this is an aberration and will level out.

 

[ScottBrew]

Haven't been to the Black Pearl but hear it's nice. So many excellent restaurants in our downtown area, Casa Tina, Clear Sky Draught House, Living Room, etc.

Salifert and Red Sea are both good options for test kits. If it gives you any hope, my parameters now are nitrates at 0 and phosphates below .25 and don't use anything to lower them. I used NoPox for a little while (still have 3/4 the bottle) and weekly water changes. Still using same rock but did change from crushed coral to sand substrate. Had a mini cycle for a month or so.

 

[Saltyreef]

Ive sucessfully done near 100% water changes with no ill effects to bioload or inhabitants.
You might want to try this method. I understand if your nitrates are from old live rock this will only take care of the concentration found in the water.

Drain tank to 20%
Refill to 40% with freshly mixed and tempered water. (Make sure ph is about the same too as this will likely cause a small ph swing).
Your nitrates would be at about half of what you started with at this point.

You can refill to 100% here and your water should test about 20% of the original nitrate level.

Or drain to 20% again instead of refilling to 100% and refill to 40% for another reduction of nitrates by half.

Ive gotten a tank from 100+ ppm of nitrates to nearly zero overnight with no recycling of the tank and no loss of life.
Then again i didnt have the issue of it seeping from my rock.
Hope you figure it out soon!

 

[Saltyreef]

Dunedin. That makes me want to go to the Black Pearl again. Great resturant.

I'm using an API test kit. I was going to switch to a different one when I reboot. I'll need to do a bunch of research to pick the right one. I was thinking about going with two different kits based on research and seeing what they show me.

This will be a complete tear down and redo. Im going to rip everything out and clean the tank. I'm thinking about even a new tank at the rate. I'm strongly considering buying new rock as well as doing a 3 month quarantine process on my remaining fish and coral while I wait for it to cycle completely.

The rock is a hodgepodge that built up over 18 years as I moved around in Tampa. I feel that continuing to use for the rebuild might be a mistake.

Salifert. Only kits ill ever buy.

 

[6TankReefer9]

Sounds like maybe another critter or two died and you weren't able to find them. That would be my guess and explain the elevated levels as well.

 

[James Tucker]

Thanks for all the advice and I’ll definitely pickup the recommended testing kits.


I ended up doing the tear down. I was concerned for my tang, as she’s like a dog now in terms of personality, so I took precautions to prioritize her staying alive.

I did not kill most of my live rock since consensus seems to be it should be ok, but I’ll keep an eye on it.

I kept everything submerged and split what I could to different tanks with the same water parameters (except nitrates being at near 0). I’m going to test each tank daily to see what happens. This will make the water changes more manageable in this little experiment.

When I was pulling all the rock out I did find more dead cleanup crew. I’m down to 2 snails, 1 hermit crab, and 2 peppermint shrimp. I put the survivors with the majority of live rock. They lasted 3 weeks with nitrates above 80+ so they must be tough little guys. I’m just going to tell myself that lol.

I’m going to go bare bottom and start over. I wonder if I should get a longer tank? I don’t like how this one is plumbed now that I found out there are better ways. It’s also really deep making it hard to clean. (As you can see the algae near the bottom.) It would also be nice to let my fish swim horizontally more.

You can see one of the dead turbo snails in the back middle in the sand.

 

[lmm1967]

personally - I don't believe those nitrate levels would be harmful to a healthy fish.

 

[James Tucker]

Super high Nitrates for more than a couple weeks makes me uneasy. It’s a feeling, so I can’t fight it all that well. Plus my father is in the hospital this week going through open heart surgery so I’m a bit nervous overall.

So the smaller tanks that I moved everything to are doing just fine. Everyone is happy as far as I can tell.

The 90g is not doing well. At this point I have decided to play with it since my important things are no longer in there. Might as well.

I hope no one tries this; it is a terrible idea.

I ended up removing 70% of the sand. The water was so bad. I in-tank cleaned the rest. By in-tank clean I mean I used strong power heads to blow the sand around like a storm for the past 24hrs. The idea was to keep the detritus suspended to go into filter socks. Some sand got into my overflow, but only a little. I’ll have to clean that out this weekend.

I went through 10 filter sock changes and 3 skimmer cup empties before no more particles other than sand were being tossed around and my filter socks stopped turning brown. It was crystal clear water. * Btw new kits are in the mail.

I thought about stories that I had heard regarding bacteria blooms when carbon dosing and nitrates being too high. I decided to try and cause one. I thought it would be amusing to watch.

10ml of vodka yesterday and 10ml vodka today. Water is no longer clear and the skimmer cup is filling up with super nasty smelling brown stuff. I’m going to keep it up for a few days to see what happens.

Btw this is what my test kit shows. Accurate or not, it’s pretty bad.

 

[Saltyreef]

What were your nitrates after stirring everything up and before vodka dosing?

 

[James Tucker]

I’ll be retesting tomorrow. The tank smells pretty bad, so I know stuff is going on at least.

 

[DarkSky]

Do you have the option of going bare bottom and removing all the sand completely, at least until you get a handle on things?

 

[James Tucker]

Yeah that’s the end step. Remove all sand, 100% water change and start the cycle process from the beginning.

48hrs end result: No change in nitrates and girlfriend is not too happy (she worked from home yesterday). Lol

I was curious to see how much nitrate that would be removed. After 48hrs, not a lot in context of having off the chart readings. Due to my girlfriend, this little experiment needs to conclude.

I’m going to clean up the tank and do the water change and start the cycle process tomorrow. My amazon order was delayed so I canceled it and bought salifert kits from a local reef store (coral corral). I’m good to go to try again. This time with a ton more knowledge than 5yrs ago and a generator.

I think I’ll be doing real experiments in the future after I finish getting this guy back up, but not in my living room.

 

[Dimmy007]

I know I’m new to this but I had the same spike happen. My nitrate was blood red. Ran to Petco and picked up some prime. Dosed it as per instructions and got it back under control. Still no idea what caused the spike. Tank has been good since then.

 

[ihavecrabs]

I just ordered some of this for myself.. wondering if it would help you out too..

Dr. Tim's Waste Away

I saw the pic of the empty tank. Are you still heating and circulating the water? If not, the film algaes and other microfauna will definitely die and stink up the place.

 

[James Tucker]

The tank is basically still running with power heads and lights this whole time. I also have the sump up and running with a return pump, skimmer, and socks (been changing them every day). I cleared out the sump when I cleared out the tank and the light from above is lighting the sump. Algae is still growing just fine. I need do a deep clean on my sump. Thinking about doing it tomorrow.

I didn’t get any smell until I vodka dosed the tank causing a massive bacteria bloom (on purpose). The tank cleared up since last night, but nitrates remain. I dropped in carbon this morning to kill the smell before my girlfriend killed me lol.

I thought about trying some other things, but I’ll have some notes from this thread if it happens again. Everything was cool until that stupid hurricane. But I live in Florida so my fault for not being prepared.

Mind the mess, I’m remounting stuff.