Turning off flow

Reef-_-Noob · May 6, 2023

I've searched the forums but cannot find much on this topic. Mostly turning off flow for feeding.

When I turn off flow I get crazy polyp extension. Does anybody do this consistently? I got carried away and was doing this for feedings but wondering if it is beneficial to turn off flow without feedings

Tuan’s Reef · May 6, 2023

Yes, known thing. That's why they have feed mode on pumps.

Dburr1014 · May 6, 2023

Reef-_-Noob said:
I've searched the forums but cannot find much on this topic. Mostly turning off flow for feeding.

When I turn off flow I get crazy polyp extension. Does anybody do this consistently? I got carried away and was doing this for feedings but wondering if it is beneficial to turn off flow without feedings

I used to.
When I did, I put the food in as I was turning off the pump so it would swish around first. I figured moving food was easier to catch than still water. Or I sometimes left one pump on.

Mr. Mojo Rising · May 6, 2023

turn off flow without feedings, you mean no flow all the time? That will kill the coral.

Corals breathe with flow. Think of the coral as "gasping" for air when you see it inflated like that....

QUOTE
If you had to breathe (respire) as a coral breathes,this would be the equivalent of holding your lungs outside of your body, inside out, and just hoping that the wind would blow hard and long enough for you to be able to breathe. This is how corals breathe in their environment
UNQUOTE

Water flow is more important for corals than light. Part 1. Introduction to Gas Exchange

Considerations for water flow are almost always secondary to other decisions made when assembling a reef set up when in fact, water flow is paramount to the health and vitality of a reef system.

reefs.com

Reef-_-Noob · May 6, 2023

That's the reason there is no searchable topic for this. Keywords obfuscate the results.
I am saying it is common knowledge to stop flow and feed corals.. but instead of feeding corals allow for maximum polyp extension about the same time frame as feeding and start flow again

LordofCinder said:
turn off flow without feedings, you mean no flow all the time? That will kill the coral.

Corals breathe with flow. Think of the coral as "gasping" for air when you see it inflated like that....

QUOTE
If you had to breathe (respire) as a coral breathes,this would be the equivalent of holding your lungs outside of your body, inside out, and just hoping that the wind would blow hard and long enough for you to be able to breathe. This is how corals breathe in their environment
UNQUOTE

Water flow is more important for corals than light. Part 1. Introduction to Gas Exchange

Considerations for water flow are almost always secondary to other decisions made when assembling a reef set up when in fact, water flow is paramount to the health and vitality of a reef system.

reefs.com

Reef-_-Noob · May 6, 2023

LordofCinder said:
turn off flow without feedings, you mean no flow all the time? That will kill the coral.

Corals breathe with flow. Think of the coral as "gasping" for air when you see it inflated like that....

QUOTE
If you had to breathe (respire) as a coral breathes,this would be the equivalent of holding your lungs outside of your body, inside out, and just hoping that the wind would blow hard and long enough for you to be able to breathe. This is how corals breathe in their environment
UNQUOTE

Water flow is more important for corals than light. Part 1. Introduction to Gas Exchange

Considerations for water flow are almost always secondary to other decisions made when assembling a reef set up when in fact, water flow is paramount to the health and vitality of a reef system.

reefs.com

How do you know it is not a feeding response??

Dburr1014 · May 6, 2023

Polyps stretching when food is the water is a response to the food.
The food should still move around for them to be able to catch it.
Definatly turn the flow back on after.

Reef-_-Noob · May 6, 2023

Dburr1014 said:
Polyps stretching when food is the water is a response to the food.
The food should still move around for them to be able to catch it.
Definatly turn the flow back on after.

So polyp extension with flow off and no food or aminos or reef roids is because they are trying to breathe??

Reef-_-Noob · May 6, 2023

If I feed when flow is off regularly the corals know when flow is off food is coming?? It can go both ways but I do not believe they are searching for oxygen with their lungs outside their body. That is a bit extreme for my case

Dburr1014 · May 7, 2023

When you turn flow off, the oxygen does not deplete instantly. Perhaps they know food is coming if that's what you've been doing that could very well be so.
But no flow for a whole day is not good for any coral, but I don't believe this is what you were saying originally. What I think you're saying is that you turn the flow off in your tank, feed the coral and the polyps come out, and you turn the flow back on when done.

My other post I am saying, doesn't matter if flow is on or off, when there's food in the water the polyps will come out generally and try to grab some. End of story.

It would help if there was some flow in the tank because if the food is not moving toward any polyp, how would it grab it?

Coral need flowing water catch food and to shed its waste. This promotes healthy coral. Flowing water does also help oxygenate the water which does a whole bunch more of things like ph, ect.

Reef-_-Noob · May 7, 2023

Yes you get it. I understand completely what you are saying.

@LordofCinder proposed I was suffacating the corals and then jumped off the bridge and said I would have no flow. I wanted to confirm if maybe instead it could be a feeding response but he has yet to get back up from the bridge jump

srobertb · May 7, 2023

Polyp extension is most likely in response to the acknowledgement of a food source in the water column. Yes, turning flow off may be a Pavlovian response as well. I don’t think anyone can definitively say.

Coral are stationary creatures (as an oversimplification). Placing a bowl of food 10 feet away from a quadriplegic dog may evoke a response but will not feed the dog.

Water movement, especially in SPS is critical to their health. This is a well known and researched fact and the science behind it is readily available.

Consider a train: It takes a lot to get it started. Once it’s started it will pick up speed and move briskly. If you choose to slam on the brakes for 15-30 minutes a couple times a day, Each time the train will need to begin the process of getting back up to speed again. It won’t get very far in a day.

People focus so much on ratios and certain numbers on here and completely discount arguably the most important factor in this hobby. Stability. Creating an environment that is stable is key. By creating constant rapid changes (flow, no flow, moving corals, rapidly raising alkalinity of calcium to different levels to try and invoke faster growth, changing lighting spectrum, dirty hands in the tank, etc) you’re doing more harm than having the “perfect” alkalinity or “perfect” Ph.

Here are the most common options:

Option 1: Turn off flow, wait for poly extension. Use a syringe or other tool to spot feed each coral by gently spraying the food over the extended polyps. The entire process will take 10-15 minutes and there will be no I’ll effects.

Option 2: Turn off your return pumps using a very common “feed mode” feature associated with pumps and controllers. Optionally create a feed mode setting for your power heads or circulation pump that reduces their speed. Add your food to the tank and allow the power heads to move the food around your corals for 10-15 minutes before turning the return pump back on.

Option 3: Don’t bother feeding your corals because if you have sufficient bio load and are already feeding your tank, your corals probably don’t need the additional food.

The only corals I have seen marked improvement in with feedings are NPS, Duncan’s, and Acans. It has been a waste of time and money for me beyond that. I think if we could look closely at many many medium-to-well stocked mature tanks that broadcast feed we’d find that these extra foods and aminos and things are not doing anything magical over just adding a little extra fish food.

Reef-_-Noob · May 7, 2023

Corals are not trains in the sense that they are efficient living animals "stopping the train" is actually initiating an efficient response of polyp extension. They are receiving more light and may actually be feeding on anything in the water column.

I run my flow constant one speed 100% of the time. Other reefers use variable flow throughout the day. Why was this not brought up? That is more the direction I am going to offer different flow patterns , albeit no flow , to generate polyp extension.

Think of it as working out. You can be stable and not workout or you can incorporate weekly workouts. I think this a better analogy than a quadriplegic dog lol

Reef-_-Noob · May 7, 2023

I suppose the argument against is that it is inhumane to corals but the logic is not making sense to me with the examples provided

Dburr1014 · May 7, 2023

If your looking for polyp extension just "because", I don't think turning off the flow just to have it is doing anything great for them.

thatmanMIKEson · May 7, 2023

I never stop flow, sometimes for larger waterchanges I have to shut of the return pump, but I never see a difference in polyp extension for the short amount of time the pump is off. At night I don't slow the flow either, but I do have random flow patterns set all day and night, but the same patterns every day become non random eventually.

I think polyp extension is more effected by the animals or inverts in the tank, or lighting intensity or duration, and harsh direct flow.

I could see how stopping flow could be ok or a non factor for a short period but also keeping flow consistent over a longer period has a larger impact on coral health over the flow stopping for a longer period of time. If in a month you stop the flow for a total of a few hours compared to not stopping it at all, that's more time the corals had to take in nutrients and expel waste. i don't want to reference the ocean and tide flow starts and stops, because frankly it's a totally different world, and not comparable to our glass boxes where we manufacture coral.

so I vote to not stop flow more than necessary just to accomplish polyp extension, in fact there are plenty of healthy acropora with no visible polyp extension, so I don't believe PE to be a reflection of coral health, or a reason to manipulate our environment more than necessary to achieve more. IMO

Reef-_-Noob · May 7, 2023

In case anyone is curious I am noticing impressive polyp extension on rose hammers, frogspawn, montipora confusa, and a green branching psammycora. My gsp is also elongated

Reef-_-Noob · May 7, 2023

I am curious if I should perform this at night or during the day so the corals have the benefit of polyp extension for the duration of the day. I have tested this weekend cutting the flow off for 30 minutes and then resuming.

The PE remained after I cut flow on but not as much when flow was off