Two Displays Run From Basement Sump

[incloud design]

Just curious how many if any of you have a basement sump and whether or not running two displays off one sump in the basement will work out well. I've started a thread here explaining what I'm aiming to do.

 

[Silver Dollar]

I run two tanks from one sump. It works nice. You have to think of the worst cases in order to design it.
What happpens:
-when the power is out and excess water comes to the sump from both tanks?
-When one return pump stops and the other one pumps the excess water to one tank?
-And the other way round.
-Is it enough water in the return pump compartment when both pumps run?

 

[incloud design]

If you look at my thread link above you'll see I have a 150 gallon stock tank for my sump. What I'd like to do is run from the sump to my 65 then to my Red Sea Reefer 450 and back. I'd have to use a valve to get the head to pass to the 450. I'd also like to still use the sump of the 450 with a smaller pump to circulate and use my skimmer and scrubber in the stand. I'm not sure if this would be possible or not but sure sounds good!

 

[Silver Dollar]

Can you draw a sketch and post it here? It is more easy to understand then.
I'm a little bit conserned about the pump. It might be to small. What will the distanse between the sumps water level and aquariums water level be?

 

[incloud design]

Can you draw a sketch and post it here? It is more easy to understand then.
I'm a little bit conserned about the pump. It might be to small. What will the distanse between the sumps water level and aquariums water level be?

You read my words. Nothing special but here's the basis of my idea.

 

[incloud design]

Pump is rated at Max Head: 30ft. I'm using it noe at 60% and that's still quite a bit of flow.

 

[amps]

I run 3 tanks off one basement sump, 2 are on the main floor and one is in the basement. I run a dedicated return for each tank to make maintenance and troubleshooting easy. Just make sure to leave lots of room in the sump to catch water when the power goes off and have your return pipes very close to the surface to minimize backflow.

 

[ca1ore]

What I'd like to do is run from the sump to my 65 then to my Red Sea Reefer 450 and back. I'd have to use a valve to get the head to pass to the 450.

If you want one tank to feed the next you typically pump into the one that is highest which drains into the lower one which drains into the sump. Sump doesn't care how many tanks as long as there is adequate drain-down capacity.

 

[incloud design]

I run 3 tanks off one basement sump, 2 are on the main floor and one is in the basement. I run a dedicated return for each tank to make maintenance and troubleshooting easy. Just make sure to leave lots of room in the sump to catch water when the power goes off and have your return pipes very close to the surface to minimize backflow.

People often show concern based on power outages and I understand why but if there is a check valve in place along with a failsafe in addition to having an over-sized sump, what problem could arise? Am I missing something? If i shut my pump down I get a couple seconds of back flow and slurping, that's it. Doesn't even affect my ATO! I see you are dedicating returns and that is what I am trying to get around. It would be much more efficient and simplify my setup to tap into my existing display which is only using 52% of pump power. How to plumb it in is what has me stumped currently. I'm not sure whether or not tapping into the return and also having two tanks drain in the same line will work. In theory it would but I'm not a plumber. Essentially my plan has changed drastically with this additional tank and I would like to make the most of both my new 150 gallon sump system and the Reefer system. It could be an absolute gem of a system if set up correctly, an absolute catastrophe if not.

 

[incloud design]

If you want one tank to feed the next you typically pump into the one that is highest which drains into the lower one which drains into the sump. Sump doesn't care how many tanks as long as there is adequate drain-down capacity.

If you look at the diagram above (terrible,I know) you can see that the pump will go to the 65 first which is on a 40" tall stand. I'd then T off to the 450 inline with the 65 in which the 450 is on a 34" tall stand. So the 65 would come first and is higher than the 450. Hope that makes sense! I'm attempting to just tap into the existing system but also have the Red Sea system (sump) functional in addition. So I'd be using the basement sump for both but the 450 would also being utilizing its own equipment. In the end I'd actually be running 2 sumps, one under the 450 and one in the basement for equipment and water change convenience.

 

[Shaun Sweeney]

I run 7 tanks from the basement. My two main DT's are 140 gallons each. I use a couple of Goby pumps but the system will run on one if the other is being serviced. My original sump (90 gallon) was capable of handling the backflow but just barely so I expanded it with a water bridge to a secondary tank. That worked out well as a place to put my Vertex skimmer.

 

[mcarroll]

Basement sumps aren't efficient by any conventional sense of the word, so maybe I'm offbase as far as the highest priority...but why not make one or both systems AIO? That's MUCH more efficient.

 

[ca1ore]

People often show concern based on power outages and I understand why but if there is a check valve in place along with a failsafe in addition to having an over-sized sump, what problem could arise?

If you have both (and oversized = able to contain all drain drain), then you are fine; though I'd debate the need then for the check valve. Check valves tend to leak, and while that may not be apparent for a short duration pump shutdown, it can become problematic for a long duration outage. That's why most tenured reefers don't use them.

 

[OriginalUserName]

If you look at the diagram above (terrible,I know) you can see that the pump will go to the 65 first which is on a 40" tall stand. I'd then T off to the 450 inline with the 65 in which the 450 is on a 34" tall stand. So the 65 would come first and is higher than the 450. Hope that makes sense! I'm attempting to just tap into the existing system but also have the Red Sea system (sump) functional in addition. So I'd be using the basement sump for both but the 450 would also being utilizing its own equipment. In the end I'd actually be running 2 sumps, one under the 450 and one in the basement for equipment and water change convenience.

I know it's extra work, but wouldn't you have better control/lower head pressure by running two different lines from a manifold off your pump? (maybe not, just curious)

 

[mcarroll]

Vertical distance + (Total length of plumbing+Plumbing diameter+Target flow rate)
...all seem to be the main factors in head pressure. In short, that's lift plus friction.

http://www.freecalc.com/fric.htm is the calculator I use for the second half of that equation.

@incloud design if you want to post your (estimated) parts list for the whole installation (from pump to the last outlet) we can give you a pretty close estimate of the available flow rate for your tanks. Assumes you have a flow curve for your pump from the maker, of course.

 

[incloud design]

I run two tanks from one sump. It works nice. You have to think of the worst cases in order to design it.
What happpens:
-when the power is out and excess water comes to the sump from both tanks?
-When one return pump stops and the other one pumps the excess water to one tank?
-And the other way round.
-Is it enough water in the return pump compartment when both pumps run?

Sorry for the delay and Thanks to all for the suggestions. I had to take a break for a bit but now have the Reefer 450 up and running with standard plumbing. I must say I am amazed how silent this is with a true siphon! Okay, so now that it is up and running as intended I built a custom drain pipe with a "T" to go out the back of the stand. I drilled with a hole saw a 2" hole and placed a grommet in the hole for aesthetics. The hole is behind where you see the stock Red Sea adjusting valve in the image below. I used the stock drain for now to test for leaks and start a cycle. I'll post an image below of my custom drain in which I plan to "T" out the back, go through the floor to my basement, and tap into my other (65 gallon) drain to the basement sump. A valve before the split would shut off the Reefer drain. I believe this should work out okay. Problem then is doing the same for the return back to the Reefer as if anything goes wrong with the pump in the Reefer sump section my basement pump will keep pumping and I will have a nasty and severe overflow in my living room. I have gone over and over this for a couple weeks and haven't moved forward in fear I will miss a major factor in my design. So I'm here hoping together we can find a solution to this that will allow me to utilize both sumps (Reefer & Basement) in a safe way. I basically want the Reefer sump to house my Bubble Magus and Reactors and the basement sump for automated water changes, ATO, RO, Heaters, and such. All my equipment is in the basement and is currently only supporting my 65 gallon which seems a waste. The Reefer is certainly going to be my show tank and highest priority.

That said, I look forward to the ideas that you all may have and am open to any and all suggestions. Thanks!

If you look closely above you can see right behind the Red Sea valve is where I drilled and intend on using the hole to split the drain down to the basement.

You can see my 65 gallon across the room in the reflection off my Reefer. The aquascape looks much better in person and is all assembled with epoxy and acrylic rods.

Here's a walk through of my basement sump setup when I first got it running to show what I'm working with. Terrible video, I know but it shows better than I can describe.

 

[incloud design]

I know it's extra work, but wouldn't you have better control/lower head pressure by running two different lines from a manifold off your pump? (maybe not, just curious)

I debated whether or not to run the single basement pump to both systems but would prefer to have the Red Sea run as normal and the basement sump as an additional water volume and filtration along with ATO and to simplify water changes. The only problem I am having is if the Red Sea system pump stops (fails) for any reason the basement will keep pumping and overflow the Red Sea sump. If I could find a way to kill the basement pump if the water in the Red Sea sump gets too full it would be solved. As of now I haven't found a solution.

 

[CDavmd]

controller such as a Neptune apex with an optical sensor on the Red Sea. You would program it such that if the sensor becomes submerged (closed) it would shut off the pump.

 

[incloud design]

controller such as a Neptune apex with an optical sensor on the Red Sea. You would program it such that if the sensor becomes submerged (closed) it would shut off the pump.

Perfect solution if I want to spend $250 on a switch, lol. Had already given it thought!

How about $20? https://www.amazon.com/Level-Sense-..._rd_t=40701&psc=1&refRID=8CMXD630BBWHRPH9KB8V

 

[sharpimage]

It seems like an accident waiting to happen. I see too many variables and the result is a flood. I would personally keep the RS as a stand alone system. Switches fail, check valves fail.

A thought, you could put a bulkhead in your sump, above the waterline, draining to the basement. If the RS pump fails, the sump would fill until the bulkhead drain. Should work. I wouldn't do it, but should