Two QT Questions

[Agustin Martinez III]

For background, I've been having a difficult time in my QT (partially my fault). 10Gal QT with HOB and powerhead (pointed to the side for flow). Using cupramine for copper treatment and the initial 19 drops for 10gal per instructions raised copper levels (using Hanna checker) to .79ppm within 36 hours of first dose (I should've done it more slowly). First dose was 48 hours after introducing one clownfish into QT. I did two water changes to reduce copper to .35ppm. Kept it at that level for 48 hours before adding more cupramine to reach the .50ppm therapeutic level I've read about (reached .5, a full 24hours after adding more). Clownfish use to swim all around the tank and is now only in the PVC elbow. Doesn't go after food when it's at the top or sinking. While it's in the elbow it'll kinda vibrate every so often. Not sure what that means. My thought was to start adding food additives like Selcon and Vitachem. Vita chem meantions it can be added once a week.

1. I've read about quality of feeding is important in QT and additives are helpful in this area. Can food additives adversely impact the copper treatment (raise to lethal levels/lower to non therapeutic levels) or water quality in QT?

2. What are the signs of low oxygen exchange in the water? I've kept the water level at a point where the HOB creates bubbles at the surface. I'm assuming that's enough?

Just wondering if the clownfish is acting weird or being a clown.

Thank you for any advice and guidance.

 

[Agustin Martinez III]

@Marco S advised this in a separate thread so I pulled it into here

@Marco S Post
"My advise would be to get it out of copper right away, (unless it has signs of Ich or Marine Velvet) and get it eating before adding any medication. Once the fish is eating then you can start adding copper slowly until you reach the therapeutic level.

I would also recommend using CoperPower instead since it has a much larger therapeutic range and is easier to maintain for prolonged periods and while doing water changes. I've also heard that CopperPower is the safest copper product you can use and is what I have been using for the last year with all my saltwater fish and I have not lost one yet to the meds, (although I lost a bunch to disease).

Last recommendation would be to use the Fish Disease forum here instead of this one. There are experts on QT, Disease Diagnostics and Treatment there that usually answer very quickly when you need them. There are also sticky posts that will give you answers to any questions you will ever have on the QT process itself and most diseases and treatments.

Hope that helps."

 

[Agustin Martinez III]

@Marco S....My thoughts are to do a 5 gal water change and add carbon to dilute/eliminate copper over the next week? I'm leaving on a last minute business trip for 6 days tomorrow. My wife knows to check water evaporation (add RODI water) and watch the ammonia levels (water change if needed). Focus on feeding over the next week?

I forgot to mention the pellets at the bottom disappear overnight. Can't tell if it's from filter or from feeding though.

Is the vibration behavior a red flag?

Thank you for the support.

 

[Marco S]

I've never seen a fish "vibrate" other than my Bangaii Cardinals when they are attempting to mate, (haven't successfully mated yet though). That may be a sign of stress but I will leave it to others more experienced to comment on that. #reefsquad @4FordFamily @HotRocks @Humblefish

As far as feeding goes, if I don't see them eat it...I assume they are not eating it. Food rarely has time to hit the bottom in any of my tanks. Try feeding frozen instead of pellets to start. If that doesn't work then try live food. Once they are eating frozen or live then start adding pellets or whatever food you plan on feeding regularly. Remove the food if it doesn't eat it after several minutes or so, so you don't have an ammonia spike while you are trying to get it to eat.

Once the fish is successfully eating then you can start adding copper slowly until you get to therapeutic levels. Once in copper for 14 days you can move it to a clean tank to continue QT with other meds, (PraziPro, Metroplex etc...). If you do not have another QT then you will want to leave it in copper for the full 30 days.

Depending on how big your main tank is and how many fish you have to stock, you may want to get a bigger QT so you can QT multiple fish at the same time. I had 2 45 gallon QT tanks, 2 20 gallon QT tanks and 2 10 gallon QT tanks going at once and it took me close to a year to fully stock my tank with fish and I am still stocking Inverts and coral as we speak so it will probably be close to 2 years before I am fully stocked.

Hopefully others with more experience will add comments here...

 

[Idoc]

Sounds like you've received some good advice already. Id definitely get the copper levels down until you see the fish eating successfully. Id start with frozen first before attempting pellets...frozen mysis is hard for a fish to pass up.

The only other thing to consider is treating with Metronidazole in order to clear out any Brooklynella. This is a very common disease in clowns and other damsels. If showering no signs of ich yet, you might want to treat that first and then do copper second. Just something to think about..

 

[Agustin Martinez III]

Thank you all for the info and guidance. I rechecked parameters before going to sleep last night and the SG fell from 1.026 to 1.024 ( i must've added too much RODI during topoff yesterday morning). I added more saltwater (1.026 SG) before going to bed.

As of this morning Fish is eating again. I've only been using the ambient light from a small lamp in the room. I turned on a larger/brighter light to observe better and the clown came out of the PVC elbow and is pecking at the food along the bottom(4-7 pellets worth).

@Idoc I did two treatments (spaced out every 48hrs) of Metroplex thus far and will do another tomorrow morning. I'll switch to mysis shrimp this week to see if it's just food preference.

Since he's eating and swimming around again do I need to drop the copper still? No signs of Ich but my first attempt at my IM Nuvo 40 both my clowns died after two weeks in the tank from what I think was velvet or ich. I didn't quarantine and I'm just more concerned this go around than I was last time.

He was eating fine through the time I had issues dialing in the copper level. Is it safe to assume the SG drop caused some stress to alter behavior for a brief period? SG is back up to 1.026.

Thank you both @Idoc @Marco S for the support!

 

[Agustin Martinez III]

I've never seen a fish "vibrate" other than my Bangaii Cardinals when they are attempting to mate, (haven't successfully mated yet though). That may be a sign of stress but I will leave it to others more experienced to comment on that. #reefsquad @4FordFamily @HotRocks @Humblefish

As far as feeding goes, if I don't see them eat it...I assume they are not eating it. Food rarely has time to hit the bottom in any of my tanks. Try feeding frozen instead of pellets to start. If that doesn't work then try live food. Once they are eating frozen or live then start adding pellets or whatever food you plan on feeding regularly. Remove the food if it doesn't eat it after several minutes or so, so you don't have an ammonia spike while you are trying to get it to eat.

Once the fish is successfully eating then you can start adding copper slowly until you get to therapeutic levels. Once in copper for 14 days you can move it to a clean tank to continue QT with other meds, (PraziPro, Metroplex etc...). If you do not have another QT then you will want to leave it in copper for the full 30 days.

Depending on how big your main tank is and how many fish you have to stock, you may want to get a bigger QT so you can QT multiple fish at the same time. I had 2 45 gallon QT tanks, 2 20 gallon QT tanks and 2 10 gallon QT tanks going at once and it took me close to a year to fully stock my tank with fish and I am still stocking Inverts and coral as we speak so it will probably be close to 2 years before I am fully stocked.

Hopefully others with more experience will add comments here...

I have a IM Nuvo 40. Failed at the first attempt, this is a restart after leaving it fallow for 6ish months. I'm using @Humblefish 's QT protocol (I messed up and bought cupramine vs copper power though). Stock plan is two clowns, bicolor blenny, maybe a goby, peppermint shrimp and cleaner crew.

 

[Idoc]

Thank you all for the info and guidance. I rechecked parameters before going to sleep last night and the SG fell from 1.026 to 1.024 ( i must've added too much RODI during topoff yesterday morning). I added more saltwater (1.026 SG) before going to bed.

As of this morning Fish is eating again. I've only been using the ambient light from a small lamp in the room. I turned on a larger/brighter light to observe better and the clown came out of the PVC elbow and is pecking at the food along the bottom(4-7 pellets worth).

@Idoc I did two treatments (spaced out every 48hrs) of Metroplex thus far and will do another tomorrow morning. I'll switch to mysis shrimp this week to see if it's just food preference.

Since he's eating and swimming around again do I need to drop the copper still? No signs of Ich but my first attempt at my IM Nuvo 40 both my clowns died after two weeks in the tank from what I think was velvet or ich. I didn't quarantine and I'm just more concerned this go around than I was last time.

He was eating fine through the time I had issues dialing in the copper level. Is it safe to assume the SG drop caused some stress to alter behavior for a brief period? SG is back up to 1.026.

Thank you both @Idoc @Marco S for the support!

I only use ambient room lighting while my fish are in quarantine. It's less stress on them. I don't think the drop in salinity caused the timid behavior. It could have been the fish was just stressed from being in a new environment and afraid to come out of the tube. It's a good sign here is feeding again.

You can probably keep him in the low level of copper since he's showing signs of eating. If you've already been doing Metronidazole treatments, you should have an airstone going or have the powerhead pointing to the surface in order to keep the water oxygenated.

Once he starts eating really well, then you can start your medicated foods to clear out any internal parasites or worms. Mixing 1 scoop General cure + 1 scoop Focus + 1 TBS food and making a slurry of the mixture. Feed this 2-3 times a day for 14-21 days. Usually best to do this opposite the full copper treatment since copper can suppress their appetite a bit.

 

[Agustin Martinez III]

I only use ambient room lighting while my fish are in quarantine. It's less stress on them. I don't think the drop in salinity caused the timid behavior. It could have been the fish was just stressed from being in a new environment and afraid to come out of the tube. It's a good sign here is feeding again.

You can probably keep him in the low level of copper since he's showing signs of eating. If you've already been doing Metronidazole treatments, you should have an airstone going or have the powerhead pointing to the surface in order to keep the water oxygenated.

Once he starts eating really well, then you can start your medicated foods to clear out any internal parasites or worms. Mixing 1 scoop General cure + 1 scoop Focus + 1 TBS food and making a slurry of the mixture. Feed this 2-3 times a day for 14-21 days. Usually best to do this opposite the full copper treatment since copper can suppress their appetite a bit.

Ok. I’ll pause on treatments besides maintaining copper and feed reg pellets until I get the mysis shrimp. The HOB filter creates a decent amount of bubbles at the top. Is that enough to oxygenate the water? I’ll point the power head towards the surface just in case too. Here’s a picture of my setup pre-fish.

 

[bluprntguy]

IMO, tank transfer is preferable as QT/treatment for clowns. They are small enough that you can use a 5 gallon bucket for the transfers.

 

[Agustin Martinez III]

IMO, tank transfer is preferable as QT/treatment for clowns. They are small enough that you can use a 5 gallon bucket for the transfers.

That’s an excellent point. I didn’t even think about using my 5 or 10 gal buckets as a tank transfers. What’s the timeline? 14 days in copper then transfer to bucket for a few days and observe before going to DT?

 

[4FordFamily]

That’s an excellent point. I didn’t even think about using my 5 or 10 gal buckets as a tank transfers. What’s the timeline? 14 days in copper then transfer to bucket for a few days and observe before going to DT?

14 days then transfer to another completely sterile QT for observation for 2 weeks is ideal. Some do two weeks, I generally do 12-14 days observation afterward. I’d continue to treat in metroplex for brook every other day while in copper. Continue cupramine so as not to stress the fish by changing.