Two return pumps into a manifold?

metone914

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I would like to use two cor 20 return pumps plumbed into a single manifold. Is this common? Would the pumps work against one another? The reason for this is I have heard these pumps lose dramatic flow from any head pressure. My sump will be 10’ or so from top of my tank. I’d also like to use the manifold to run my skimmer. This is all for a 180 gallon DT. Total water volume will be somewhere near 250. I guess I could use check valves after each pump, but would that further reduce flow?
 
I would like to use two cor 20 return pumps plumbed into a single manifold. Is this common? Would the pumps work against one another? The reason for this is I have heard these pumps lose dramatic flow from any head pressure. My sump will be 10’ or so from top of my tank. I’d also like to use the manifold to run my skimmer. This is all for a 180 gallon DT. Total water volume will be somewhere near 250. I guess I could use check valves after each pump, but would that further reduce flow?

Maybe the core 20 pumps aren’t the best option with 10’ of head?? I use dual return pumps not because of excessive head pressure, but for redundancy. Yes they both run continuously, but not for the same reasons. Here is a terrible diagram of what I did and how I run mine lol.

81a34b3cfc94983abb4f5041ecb28a83.jpg



I did this so I had options if one pump failed . This way I could run the system with one pump vrs 2 if I needed to. Each pump supplies water to each return. One pump to one return and the other to the other return. If I need to by turning a few valves I can have one pump run both sides.
 
Thanks for the diagram. That’s a nice way to plumb it. As far as the cor 20’s go, I have been out of the hobby awhile and after getting back in I kinda fell into the Neptune trap. I got excited and just kinda bought everything from them thinking they would be a quality item be fore doing any research :/ so I’m kind of committed to them at this point. I can build up my sump so 3-4 ‘ so that makes it a little more tolerable.
 
Thanks for the diagram. That’s a nice way to plumb it. As far as the cor 20’s go, I have been out of the hobby awhile and after getting back in I kinda fell into the Neptune trap. I got excited and just kinda bought everything from them thinking they would be a quality item be fore doing any research :/ so I’m kind of committed to them at this point. I can build up my sump so 3-4 ‘ so that makes it a little more tolerable.

Well that’s kind of my point I guess. Is there a way you can plump them separately to feed 2 different returns? In that case you’ll have more options. Now if you expect to runs more things off of the pumps and have 10’ of head pressure I’m sure you’ll be disappointed. You have options , you just need to think about what you expect these pumps to do. You also have the option of possibility adding a third smaller pump just to drive reactors and such. [emoji4]
 
If you run them with them equalized on the discharge and one fails, you will effectively fail both pumps as the other will recycle heavily back through the pump that went down. Using the piping arrangement shown above with the cross-over valve(s) closed would eliminate that possibility. Balancing two DC pumps in a common discharge may also prove tedious.
 
If you run them with them equalized on the discharge and one fails, you will effectively fail both pumps as the other will recycle heavily back through the pump that went down. Using the piping arrangement shown above with the cross-over valve(s) closed would eliminate that possibility. Balancing two DC pumps in a common discharge may also prove tedious.

Exactly!
 

So I won't comment on the 10' head pressure, but I want to comment more on the Cor20/Neptune capability. Because the new EB832 bar measures energy output, you can have the second pump on standby. The Apex programming could have it set to turn on if and only if the main/primary pump's energy output goes below a certain threshold, indicating failure. This would allow both to be plumbed in line, but only one working at a time to ensure redundancy in your system.

Another option is to plumb your second COR to only the manifold. Using unions would allow you to switch out the pumps if one fails, to ensure that the main flow to your tank at least is always going.

Good luck!
 
So I won't comment on the 10' head pressure, but I want to comment more on the Cor20/Neptune capability. Because the new EB832 bar measures energy output, you can have the second pump on standby. The Apex programming could have it set to turn on if and only if the main/primary pump's energy output goes below a certain threshold, indicating failure. This would allow both to be plumbed in line, but only one working at a time to ensure redundancy in your system.

Another option is to plumb your second COR to only the manifold. Using unions would allow you to switch out the pumps if one fails, to ensure that the main flow to your tank at least is always going.

Good luck!

If you have them inline and one fails it will backwash through the failed pump thus rendering both useless. This is why they should be plumed separately, or like I show in the above picture, they can be isolated.
 
I have two Sicce 9.0 SDC pumps plumbed inline together. The reason I did this is because I wanted to use a DC pump (but didn't want to pay for a Red Dragon or Abyzz), and these seem to handle head pressure really well. One will do the job at 100% but two will do it better and give me the redundancy I want. My sump is in the basement and my tank is on the floor directly above. it's probably about 12' of head pressure all told. the configuration is this: two pumps plumbed externally side by side, which join at an upside-down 1" wye fitting after the true union ball valves. directly above the wye fitting is a lab grade 1" Greg Fischer wye check valve. From here it's just a single 1" flex PVC line through the floor to the tank bulkhead. I've had this running since November and it's worked beautifully.
IMG_3078.JPG
IMG_3077.JPG
 
I have two Sicce 9.0 SDC pumps plumbed inline together. The reason I did this is because I wanted to use a DC pump (but didn't want to pay for a Red Dragon or Abyzz), and these seem to handle head pressure really well. One will do the job at 100% but two will do it better and give me the redundancy I want. My sump is in the basement and my tank is on the floor directly above. it's probably about 12' of head pressure all told. the configuration is this: two pumps plumbed externally side by side, which join at an upside-down 1" wye fitting after the true union ball valves. directly above the wye fitting is a lab grade 1" Greg Fischer wye check valve. From here it's just a single 1" flex PVC line through the floor to the tank bulkhead. I've had this running since November and it's worked beautifully.
IMG_3078.JPG
IMG_3077.JPG

If you look at my posts above you’ll see why this is not a good idea. If you loose one of those pumps then some of the water might make it past the check valve and make it to the tank , but a lot of it will backwash through the other pump.
 
I think it would work if you put the check valves after the pump, but before the intersection of the two. Then a single pump failure would recycle back the failed pumps plumbing path. Good luck.

I believe that you could do that to prevent the backwash , but then again you’re also relying on a check valve to prevent a possible loss of both pumps. You would also need 2 check valves in that case. One just above each pump.

One thing I’ve learned is there is always more than one way to skin a cat .... or in this instance... plump dual pumps.
 
I believe that you could do that to prevent the backwash , but then again you’re also relying on a check valve to prevent a possible loss of both pumps. You would also need 2 check valves in that case. One just above each pump.

One thing I’ve learned is there is always more than one way to skin a cat .... or in this instance... plump dual pumps.

Agreed, just pointing out a way it could work. :) and I see what you mean, I should of wrote “pumps” ;Facepalm
 
If you look at my posts above you’ll see why this is not a good idea. If you loose one of those pumps then some of the water might make it past the check valve and make it to the tank , but a lot of it will backwash through the other pump.

Huh, seems I may have been too clever by half...
 
Huh, seems I may have been too clever by half...

You’re close! Lol

Now you know what you gotta do to make it work. :)

You have options obviously, but IMHO the less you have to rely on the better. :)
 
I think it would work if you put the check valves after the pump, but before the intersection of the two. Then a single pump failure would recycle back the failed pumps plumbing path. Good luck.
I believe that you could do that to prevent the backwash , but then again you’re also relying on a check valve to prevent a possible loss of both pumps. You would also need 2 check valves in that case. One just above each pump.

One thing I’ve learned is there is always more than one way to skin a cat .... or in this instance... plump dual pumps.

As 120 said, there are options here. I'm currently designing my plumbing, hence why I'm interested in the discussion. My tank has dual overflows, with two holes each. If I wanted to do a dual return, then I would sacrifice two of the holes and be limited to a Herbie overflow option. Then I could implement 120's design in my tank. However, I want a Bean Animal overflow, which means I only have one return pipe available. Therefore, if I want to run dual pumps, I can but should probably use DangerDave's suggestion of check valves after each pump and before the connection.

But there's also a question of why to do this in the first place.

I understand that having a backup to the "heart" of your tank is critical. You never want to be trying to get Amazon to deliver another pump to you next day Saturday morning because the LFS is closed and your pump is out. But how critical is the return pump? If the pump only fails, you can stick your heater and an air pump in your DT and wait out the replacement. If you have a second one on hand, and you've plumbed in some nifty unions, you can easily replace the pump when it fails. This is useful for those of us who may not have room in the sump for a second pump and don't wish to run an external.

Really, the question is "will you know if/when your return pump fails." If your primary pump fails but you have a second one plumbed in as a backup, you may not know for awhile that one has failed but your tank is still running fine. If you don't have a second pump plumbed in, then failure to notice the failed primary pump could be critical to the DT.

I think this really gets at the heart of deciding whether to plumb in a second pump: what processes do you have in place to ensure that you know if equipment fails. Without good alarms in place to alert you if the primary pump fails, then having a second pump plumbed in is critical.

In my case, I'm using the new Neptune E832 bar, that monitors energy output. If I'm relying on Neptune to recognize the failure of the primary pump to draw power and trigger a process, does it matter if that process is a second pump coming on or an alarm to tell you to manually switch out pumps? The only reason I can think of is Murphy's law....that this will inevitably happen when you are not home and cannot go home anytime soon.

Please feel free to critique the thought process!
 
There are ways that the pump can fail that the E832 may not detect by simple power monitoring. If you want maximum reliability, then having the second pump running continuously will be more reliable than relying on an auto-start, since the spare pump may fail to start for a number of reasons as well. I would drill the back side for two independent returns or go over the top to get the two returns if you really want the redundancy.
 
There are ways that the pump can fail that the E832 may not detect by simple power monitoring. If you want maximum reliability, then having the second pump running continuously will be more reliable than relying on an auto-start, since the spare pump may fail to start for a number of reasons as well. I would drill the back side for two independent returns or go over the top to get the two returns if you really want the redundancy.

Do you have an example of a way that the pump would fail that couldn't be detected? I'm always interested in learning...
 

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