Two Stage Heating with Neptune Apex Fusion

[RamsReef]

Hello,

With all this buzzing about around heaters both from brs and neptune I thought I would throw my opinion into it.

This post will focus around what I believe is one of the optimal ways to heat your tank. How I sized my heater. How to program the Apex to utilize two stage heating and cycle both heaters at a comparable rate.

So, here we go.

1. How did I size my heaters?
   • I live in Canada so it is usually cold outside. My room temperature is kept around 68f and my tank is 78f. I aimed to have my heater just barely able to heat my tank (130 at the time now 170). So I went with just over 2x watt per gallon with 300watts, I grabbed 2.
     2 x 300 watts.
2. Run both at the same time or just one?
   • This is a frequently asked question, well at the start I was running a two stage heating with apex. Main one comes on at 78 and off at 78.5, backup comes on if the temperature has been at or below 78 for 30 minutes (Defer statement). This worked great but meant my main heater was doing all the cycling, I want to spread the love. So below I will show how I did this.
3. Backups?
   • I have I guess 1.5 backups.
     • Backup 1: The heaters hard cut off point (Thermostat on heater) is set to 81 ish. I say Ish because we all know how accurate those are, but the point is it is set and tested with a digital thermometer.
     • Backup 0.5: I have another temperature probe in my apex (2 total) and it is set to turn off any heater should the temperature reach 79.
4. WHY?
   • I wanted to have the most stable temperature I could have, with the minimal amount of cycling, even wear and tear on my heaters, and because I Can.
5. So how should this work / control narrative:
   • Turn on a heater when the tank temperature is at 78, when temperature hits 78.5 the tank should cool off as slow as possible (Dependent on heater size)
     
   • Turn on another heater should the first heater not be able to maintain temperature.
   • Maintain even wear on both heaters.
6. Enough Jibber Jabber, show me what you got.

Ok.

To start off you need to create 2 virtual outlets in your apex. I will not tell you how to do this, there are plenty of better explanations than I can provide.

I called mine, "HEAT_STG_1" and "HEAT_STG_2"

Programming for HEAT_STG_1 is as follows:

Fallback OFF
If Temp < 78.0 Then ON
If Temp > 78.5 Then OFF
Defer 030:00 Then OFF
If Temp > 78.8 Then OFF

The heater will turn on at 78 or less.
The heater will turn off at 78.5 or higher AND AFTER 30 MINUTES
The heater will turn off at 78.8 or higher INSTANTLY

Programming for HEAT_STG_2 is as follows:

Fallback OFF
If Temp < 78.0 Then ON
Defer 030:00 Then ON
If Temp > 78.5 Then OFF




The heater will turn on at 78 or less AND AFTER 30 MINUTES
The heater will turn off at 78.5 or higher INSTANTLY


After those two virtual outlets are created it is time to program the PHYSICAL Outlets.

Mine are called "HEATER_1" and "HEATER_2"

Programming for HEATER_1 is as follows:

Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Output HEAT_STG_1 = ON Then ON
If DoW -M-W-F- Then OFF
If Output HEAT_STG_2 = ON Then ON
If Temp > 79.0 Then OFF
If Temp_B > 79.0 Then OFF

Set OFF //The heater will always try to be OFF unless told to be on.

If Output HEAT_STG_1 = ON then ON //If stage 1 heat is to be on the heater will be on

If DoW -M-W-F- Then OFF //If the day is monday, wednesday, friday then turn it off or

Only heat on stage one on sunday, tuesday, thursday, saturday (4 days a week)
​

If Output HEAT_STG_2 = ON Then ON //If stage 2 heat is to be on, be on.

If Temp > 79.0 Then OFF
If Temp_B > 79.0 Then OFF // Backup temperature shutoffs

Programming for HEATER_2 is as follows:

Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Output HEAT_STG_1 = ON Then ON
If DoW S-T-T-S Then OFF
If Output HEAT_STG_2 = ON Then ON
If Temp > 79.0 Then OFF
If Temp_B > 79.0 Then OFF

Set OFF //The heater will always try to be OFF unless told to be on.

If Output HEAT_STG_1 = ON then ON //If stage 1 heat is to be on the heater will be on

If DoW S-T-T-S Then OFF//If the day is sunday, tuesday, thursday, saturday then turn it off or

Only heat on stage one on monday, wednesday, friday (3 days a week)
​

If Output HEAT_STG_2 = ON Then ON //If stage 2 heat is to be on, be on.

If Temp > 79.0 Then OFF
If Temp_B > 79.0 Then OFF // Backup temperature shutoffs

​

Temperature vs Stage 1 call for heat:

Temperature vs Stage 2 call for heat:

Temperature vs Heater 1:

Temperature vs Heater 2:

Heater 1 and Stage 1:

Heater 1 and Stage 2:

Heater 2 and Stage 1:

Heater 2 and Stage 2:

Heater 1 vs Heater 2:

There you have it,

Ram

 

[RamsReef]

Inspired by @Bulk Reef Supply series and @Terence

 

[RamsReef]

@melev

 

[RamsReef]

I'm bumping my own thread because I'm shameless.

 

[Breadman03]

I didn't go that in-depth, but I've been running my heaters with staggered temps for a while now. My first stage is a 100 watt, second is a 250, and third was a 250, with each stage set 0.3 degrees cooler than the preceding stage.

I plugged my 1,000 watt element in due to this cold snap and a very cool basement. The blue foam I put around it just wasn't cutting it this week, but I could have gotten away with adding in a 4th stage 250 watt element. I just didn't have any laying around.

 

[RamsReef]

Yes, I recommend the staggered heaters. But, a lot of feedback was happening on videos that I was watching about one heater always being used, so I thought hey why not swap them out. I used to just physically switch the outlets but this is way easier, and I'm a lazy reefer haha.

I live in the cold snap It's probably a good idea just to always have foam around your sump anyways, less $$$$.

#apexusers

 

[garbled]

I don't use staggered temps, what I use is one heater is "primary" during the day, and one is "primary" during the night. They switch roles every 12 hours. That way wear on them is equalized. So during the day, the primary kicks on, and if it runs for 30 minutes, the backup kicks on to help out. During the night, I just reverse the roles. I also have a third actual full backup, that only ever comes on if the temp is really low.

Code for it is in my build thread.

 

[RamsReef]

Thanks for sharing.

 

[rkpetersen]

I don't use staggered temps, what I use is one heater is "primary" during the day, and one is "primary" during the night. They switch roles every 12 hours. That way wear on them is equalized. So during the day, the primary kicks on, and if it runs for 30 minutes, the backup kicks on to help out. During the night, I just reverse the roles. I also have a third actual full backup, that only ever comes on if the temp is really low.

Code for it is in my build thread.

Good to see that others are finding my code useful.

 

[RamsReef]

one day Ram, one day

 

[Zachbud]

So does one stop becoming a “backup” if you wear at them equally? Will you just be out two heaters at the same time now or just extending the time before both heaters needs to be replaced?

I’m feeling like I want one to not work hard ever if it doesn’t need to, but if it doubled each of the heaters lives keeping them on and off equally then that’s sweet

 

[AshwinRavi]

thanks @Ramasule I live in western Pennsylvania, it doesn't get as cold as it does in Canada, but with my recent move and the tank moving to my basement, i switched to using two heaters and used your code.

 

[RamsReef]

So does one stop becoming a “backup” if you wear at them equally? Will you just be out two heaters at the same time now or just extending the time before both heaters needs to be replaced?

I’m feeling like I want one to not work hard ever if it doesn’t need to, but if it doubled each of the heaters lives keeping them on and off equally then that’s sweet

You can just view the trend. If you notice a heater on vs temp change you can go from there. This is nice because you should be able to see this happen on one heater before both fail.

 

[RamsReef]

thanks @Ramasule I live in western Pennsylvania, it doesn't get as cold as it does in Canada, but with my recent move and the tank moving to my basement, i switched to using two heaters and used your code.

Hopefully it works great for you

 

[VtecGuy88]

Good stuff @Ramasule we will see how it goes. I've been worried about working my heaters too hard. Hopefully this will help. Sure heaters are cheap compared to other items in the hobby but who wants premature failure, right? I did have one question to run by you. During programing of the physical heater outlets you had something like (Temp_B.) Since I only have one temp probe I used everything in your program except this last line. I created the line but left it blank. Was that the correct step for my setup since I only have one temp probe?

 

[zenx2]

I don't use staggered temps, what I use is one heater is "primary" during the day, and one is "primary" during the night. They switch roles every 12 hours. That way wear on them is equalized. So during the day, the primary kicks on, and if it runs for 30 minutes, the backup kicks on to help out. During the night, I just reverse the roles. I also have a third actual full backup, that only ever comes on if the temp is really low.

Code for it is in my build thread.

Like see your code of you don't mind