Ultra low nutrients help!

[Miami Reef]

Hey fellow reefers!

I’m struggling with an issue here.

I have a 20 gallon coral QT: A few acro frags and a giant maxima clam. No fish.

I fed half of this tablet a day with normal water changes but phosphates never went higher than 0.01ppm and even went as low as 0.00 ppm using Red Sea which is a very accurate test kit.

I just tested nitrates and it’s 0.00 (the test kit goes as low as 0.25ppm but the results was clearly 0.00ppm.

I am so confused because every time I try feeding 1 tablet instead of half I get a bacteria bloom.

I need a solution because Dinos are rolling in strong.

@taricha @ScottB @Charlie’s Frags @jda @Randy Holmes-Farley

Here is what I was feeding. I dosed my phosphates today for the first time, but I don’t have a bottle of nitrates yet and I don’t know if I should dose nitrates or ammonia for my livestock.

 

[Miami Reef]

Also, does anyone know where to buy phosphate, nitrates, and ammonia (not from brightwell). Not sure if I need sodium nitrate/phosphate or chloride or something else for the byproduct.

 

[Macdaddynick1]

GLA Potassium Nitrate (KNO3) Aquarium Fertilizer - 1lb Jar

Green Leaf Aquariums Potassium Nitrate (KNO3) delivers vital nitrogen and potassium to fuel healthy, robust aquatic plant growth.

greenleafaquariums.com

I also use their phosphate powder, comes in the same tub. This should last 70 years or so.

My guess is, since you’re starving your tank your bacterial population on the surface isn’t strong enough to handle additional food, that’s why you get all the water born bacterial blooms after heavy feeding. Your Clam should take care of any bacteria in the water while additional nitrifying bacteria establishes on the surfaces. Make sure you don’t overfeed and keep the tank oxygenated well while you’re slowly increasing feeding. GL

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

What are you feeding if you don’t have any fish?

 

[Miami Reef]

What are you feeding if you don’t have any fish?

Hmm. Do snails and corals count? My intention was for the algae wafer to break down into ammonia, nitrates, phosphates, and organics for the corals/clams.

But it doesn’t seem like the snails are eating it before the bacteria gets to it.

 

[dedragon]

what test kits are you using?

 

[dedragon]

brightwell neophos and neo nitro work well to increase but quality test kits are important as well

 

[Miami Reef]

what test kits are you using?

Red Sea Nitrates and Phosphates.

 

[Chrisv.]

Also, does anyone know where to buy phosphate, nitrates, and ammonia (not from brightwell). Not sure if I need sodium nitrate/phosphate or chloride or something else for the byproduct.

Why not from Brightwell?

 

[dedragon]

pro or regular? as regular states a +-2ppm accuracy range for nitrate

 

[dedragon]

either way brightwell does work well but there are alternatives, i use seachem fluorish nitrate and phosphate usually meant for freshwater in my tank but no reason not to use something made for reef tanks

 

[Miami Reef]

pro or regular? as regular states a +-2ppm accuracy range for nitrate

Pro for both. I didn’t know they made a regular one.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

I’m not the best person to ask for your scenario bc I have fish in my qt. I would think you’ll be fine with some more snails and keeping your alk around 7. Do you have a skimmer on this qt system?

 

[Miami Reef]

I’m not the best person to ask for your scenario bc I have fish in my qt. I would think you’ll be fine with some more snails and keeping your alk around 7. Do you have a skimmer on this qt system?

Thanks. I will add more snails and feed/dose more. I don’t even run a filter in my QT. I just do water changes.

I kept my alk around 8. I’m not dealing with tip burn, but I am dealing with a dino bloom which is the main reason I’m raising my nutrients.

I have experience with Dino’s in the past and it always came when phosphates went to 0ppm. Luckily, they rapidly go away once I raise them.

 

[SaltwaterSky]

Thanks. I will add more snails and feed/dose more. I don’t even run a filter in my QT. I just do water changes.

I kept my alk around 8. I’m not dealing with tip burn, but I am dealing with a dino bloom which is the main reason I’m raising my nutrients.

I have experience with Dino’s in the past and it always came when phosphates went to 0ppm. Luckily, they rapidly go away once I raise them.

In conjunction, adding more carbon through the tank (either adding a alternative bacterial source like microbacter7/microbacter clean, carbon dosing, or biopellets) in conjunction with heavier feeding can insure stronger overall bacterial populations in your water column that are more resilient to nutrient fluctuations and consequently dinos.

 

[taricha]

I have a 20 gallon coral QT: A few acro frags and a giant maxima clam. No fish.

I fed half of this tablet a day with normal water changes but phosphates never went higher than 0.01ppm and even went as low as 0.00 ppm using Red Sea which is a very accurate test kit.

I just tested nitrates and it’s 0.00 (the test kit goes as low as 0.25ppm but the results was clearly 0.00ppm.

I am so confused because every time I try feeding 1 tablet instead of half I get a bacteria bloom.

I need a solution because Dinos are rolling in strong.

reading between the lines, you are hoping that the pellets will raise PO4 and NO3, in part to avoid low nutrient situations where dinos are prone to grow.

Using fish food to raise PO4 and NO3 is a pathway with very little success for dinos. It's slow, adds too much organics, grows a bunch of dinos before your nutrients show up in their testable re-mineralized form.
PO4 and NO3 dosing is the far better way to raise these, if that's the goal.

Also, those pellets are high in Carbon relative to N and P compared to fish flake. Furthermore, they sink, sit in a pile and break down slowly at the bottom if nobody is eating them. It's an ideal situation for nuisance growth like cyano and dinos. I have used such a scheme to grow cyano mats in beakers on purpose.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Also, does anyone know where to buy phosphate, nitrates, and ammonia (not from brightwell). Not sure if I need sodium nitrate/phosphate or chloride or something else for the byproduct.

Amazon. Get food grade sodium nitrate, sodium phosphate.

 

[ScottB]

reading between the lines, you are hoping that the pellets will raise PO4 and NO3, in part to avoid low nutrient situations where dinos are prone to grow.

Using fish food to raise PO4 and NO3 is a pathway with very little success for dinos. It's slow, adds too much organics, grows a bunch of dinos before your nutrients show up in their testable re-mineralized form.
PO4 and NO3 dosing is the far better way to raise these, if that's the goal.

Also, those pellets are high in Carbon relative to N and P compared to fish flake. Furthermore, they sink, sit in a pile and break down slowly at the bottom if nobody is eating them. It's an ideal situation for nuisance growth like cyano and dinos. I have used such a scheme to grow cyano mats in beakers on purpose.

I am with @taricha on this. Dosing food grade sodium nitrate and food grade trisodium phosphate are the cleanest way to manage around dinos.

How good these "food" sources are for SPS is debatable. Ammonia might be better -- but it does not supply phosphorus.

 

[Miami Reef]

reading between the lines, you are hoping that the pellets will raise PO4 and NO3, in part to avoid low nutrient situations where dinos are prone to grow.

Using fish food to raise PO4 and NO3 is a pathway with very little success for dinos. It's slow, adds too much organics, grows a bunch of dinos before your nutrients show up in their testable re-mineralized form.
PO4 and NO3 dosing is the far better way to raise these, if that's the goal.

Also, those pellets are high in Carbon relative to N and P compared to fish flake. Furthermore, they sink, sit in a pile and break down slowly at the bottom if nobody is eating them. It's an ideal situation for nuisance growth like cyano and dinos. I have used such a scheme to grow cyano mats in beakers on purpose.

Thank you so much! This is exactly what is happening!

Amazon. Get food grade sodium nitrate, sodium phosphate.

Sodium phosphate dibasic. Is this safe to use? Sodium Phosphate Dibasic / 4 Ounce Bottle / 98+% Pure Food Grade/Fine Powder/USA
6.25% sodium nitrate curing salt??
The Spice Lab Curing Salt #1 (1 Lb Bag) Pink Curing Salt (Prague Powder 1) 6.25% Sodium Nitrite Curing Salt for Meat, Game, Bacon Cure, Brining Salt, Jerky Cure, Brisket & Corned Beef - Made in USA
Can I dose ammonia in addition to nitrate? I think corals much prefer the to consume the ammonia. But I only seeing ammonium, not ammonia.

Ammonium Chloride/Dry Powder / 4 Ounces / 99.9% Pure ACS Grade/Ships Fast from USA

 

[taricha]

sodium phosphate dibasic is fine.

I'd opt for something like this... instead of a pink curing salt.
https://www.amazon.com/Sodium-Nitrate-Reagent-Grade-chemically/dp/B0190TOJUS/ref=sr_1_3?crid=2LLAZ98VO8QWN

ammonium chloride is fine. Be aware that mistakes with calculations in dosing ammonia can be quite harmful. NO3 dosing not really a concern in the same way.
People in the hobby casually use "ammonia" in general. Doesn't have anything to do with distinguishing NH3/NH4. That's all controlled by pH (mostly. temp a little bit too.) once dissolved.