Unable to bring NO3 up

[enzo86]

I could use a hand with my 2-year-old tank.

My SPS are losing a good amount of color and I can't seem to get any level of NO3 in my tank. The tank is an RSR 450, running a curve 7 Skimmer and about 1/3 of the sump as a refugium with Chaetomorpha. 6 Fish including one purple tang. I have the skimmer set on 2 and empty about once every 10-12 days. Feeding every day with pellet food and mysis shrimp. I use ReefRoids and Coral Frenzy once a week. I have also started dosing Brightwell Aquatics NeoNitro Nitrogen at 12 ml per day. What are my choices here to help my SPS color up, they are currently under 4 T5's (1 C+ and 3 B+) and two Hydra52's Total Lighting Period is about 9 hours with a 2 hr ramp up and down with Max PAR around 350 between noon and 6 pm. I am also running a carbon reactor.

Current Water parameters.
DHK 8.6
CA. 440 ppm
Mag 1320 ppm.
PH 8.2
NO3 ZERO!
PO3 ZERO
Salinity 1.025
Temp 78.2 to 79.5

Attached is an image of the RedSea Nitrate test, I get the same results on the Salifert Nitrate Test.

 

[Cory]

Id take out the chaeto or reduce the light cycle a lot (for the chaeto not corals)

 

[MTBake]

Doing either could cause more harm than good, IMO. I would dose a tad of nitrates if I were in your shoes.

Where are your phosphates? And what test kit do you use for phosphates?

 

[enzo86]

Doing either could cause more harm than good, IMO. I would dose a tad of nitrates if I were in your shoes.

Where are your phosphates? And what test kit do you use for phosphates?

I am currently dosing Brightwell Aquatics NeoNitro Nitrogen at 12 ml per day. Phosphates were tested on a Hanna Checker.

"or reduce the light cycle a lot"
I just cut my fuge lights from 12 hrs back to 8, I was using this to help carry the PH thought the night once the display lights went down.

 

[Larry L]

Id take out the chaeto or reduce the light cycle a lot (for the chaeto not corals)

I agree, you didn't mention dosing carbon or NOPOX or anything like that, so if the chaeto is the only thing you are doing to reduce nutrients (besides the skimmer), then trim it back or reduce the lighting period over it and it won't pull out as many nutrients. I'd probably trim it back (a bit at a time) rather than risk reducing the light period too much.

 

[enzo86]

I agree, you didn't mention dosing carbon or NOPOX or anything like that, so if the chaeto is the only thing you are doing to reduce nutrients (besides the skimmer), then trim it back or reduce the lighting period over it and it won't pull out as many nutrients. I'd probably trim it back (a bit at a time) rather than risk reducing the light period too much.

Thanks, I'll give this a try, for some reason I didn't think that the fuge could be doing its job that well, lol. One additional question, having zero nitrates is probably not helping my SPS with their poor colors correct?

 

[MTBake]

I am currently dosing Brightwell Aquatics NeoNitro Nitrogen at 12 ml per day. Phosphates were tested on a Hanna Checker.

"or reduce the light cycle a lot"
I just cut my fuge lights from 12 hrs back to 8, I was using this to help carry the PH thought the night once the display lights went down.

I didn't see a line with po4. That's why asked. If they are at 0, this could also be your problem. The tank needs a supply of no3 and po4 in the correct ratios. Otherwise, an imbalance can occur.

I dose no3 and po4 using homemade solutions. I dose 2ppm of nitrate per day along with .06ppm of phosphates 2x per day. Every system is different though. Let me know if want my homemade recipes. Happy to post them here.

 

[cracker]

I have been in your spot & still am in one tank. IMHO, Don't mess with the lights on time or remove cheato .
May I suggest dosing because it'a so much easier to control. Just be careful not to dose too much . Real easy to over do it !
Dose just enough to see some color in the test & see what happens

 

[MTBake]

And, yes. A lack of nutrients can cause pale coloration in sps.

 

[MTBake]

I have been in your spot & still am in one tank. IMHO, Don't mess with the lights on time or remove cheato .
May I suggest dosing because it'a so much easier to control. Just be careful not to dose too much . Real easy to over do it !
Dose just enough to see some color in the test & see what happens

This is exactly why I dose. Thanks cracker!

 

[enzo86]

I didn't see a line with po4. That's why asked. If they are at 0, this could also be your problem. The tank needs a supply of no3 and po4 in the correct ratios. Otherwise, an imbalance can occur.

I dose no3 and po4 using homemade solutions. I dose 2ppm of nitrate per day along with .06ppm of phosphates 2x per day. Every system is different though. Let me know if want my homemade recipes. Happy to post them here.

Sure i would like to take a look at your recipes, or does Brightwell make something to go with the NeoNitro for P04 ? I have the Hanna Phosphate low range p04 checker HI713, not sure how well it does at really low levels? I have a ICP-OES test that should be due back in the next week so i can post those numbers once i get them.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Sure i would like to take a look at your recipes, or does Brightwell make something to go with the NeoNitro for P04 ? I have the Hanna Phosphate low range p04 checker HI713, not sure how well it does at really low levels? I have a ICP-OES test that should be due back in the next week so i can post those numbers once i get them.

We have many threads on dosing nitrate and phosphate. My recommendation is to buy food grade sodium or potassium nitrate and/or phosphate. They are readily available online.

The Hanna 713 has a claimed uncertainty of +/- 0.04 ppm, so a zero reading does not necessarily mean phosphate is too low.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I didn't see a line with po4. That's why asked. If they are at 0, this could also be your problem. The tank needs a supply of no3 and po4 in the correct ratios. Otherwise, an imbalance can occur.
.

I'm not certain what you mean by "supply", but nitrate and phosphate do not necessarily need to be added (via foods and/or dosing) in any fixed ratio to maintain nitrate and phosphate at desirable levels because there are several processes that add or consume one and not the other, or that use them at different ratios.

 

[Johnson556]

I was/am in your situation currently.

I thought about dosing but wanted to take a more natural approach, I took my ATS offline (since it was stripping the tank, melting, repeat), added 5 fish (Trio of Lyretails, Salon Fairy Wrasse, Cleaner Wrasse) and tuned my skimmer wayyyy back. This has caused a steady reading of 2PPM for a month now, as well as caused all of my Acros to come back to life. I'm seeing colors again and the picky ones are now showing polyps. Almost all have recovered from RTN as well. Once this holds for another month i'll be replacing all the Acro's I lost from zero nutrients and an alk spike.

I'm also thinking about adding a small Fuge just to offset the PH drop at night and increase my pod population, but am worried about it stripping what little nutrients I have. Hope this helps

 

[Charterreefer]

How large is your tank and how much carbon do you use? How often do you change it. Excessive carbon filtration can stress out corals too. Do you use gfo?
Increase your NO3 and PO4 dosing but monitor your levels daily. Once your coral take up what they need your PO4 and NO3 can go up rapidly. That's where you can get into trouble (from the rapid rise).

 

[Super Fly]

I'm experiencing same thing and was able to increase nutrient by turning off the GFO reactor and skimmer and increase feeding. However my birds nest tips are still white and have not colored back.

 

[roberthu526]

I’d try Red Sea reef energy A&B. They worked really well for my tank but my tank is mainly LPS so I am not sure how they work for SPS.

 

[enzo86]

So I got my ATI test back, Looks like I have some issues to fix.
https://lab.atiaquaristik.com/publicAnalysis/22722

Suprised that the Salinity is off by so much as I am testing with a refractometer and a digital unit, both calibrated to 0 and 35.

Nitrates and Phosphate levels definitely reflect what I am testing local, and surely my coloration issues. Take a look guys and let me know what you think.

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

I am also running a carbon reactor.

Do you mean a granular activated carbon (GAC) reactor? Or an organic carbon reactor containing an organic carbon source like biopellets?

Assuming you meant a GAC reactor (as organic carbon will reduce nitrates very efficiently), the nitrates are likely being absorbed by your chaeto. Live rock has a pretty incredible ability to bind phosphates. As you add nitrates, the chaeto likely has enough nitrate to combine with the phosphate already in the system to grow. If your tank has 100 gallons of total water volume, dosing 12 mL of Neonitro will only add 3 ppm to your tank, which could easily be handled by the chaeto.

Why not try increasing the Neonitro dose by 50% - 100% to see if that makes any changes in your observed levels?

 

[enzo86]

Do you mean a granular activated carbon (GAC) reactor?

GAC Reactor, mostly just to catch anything nasty that might end up in the tank, I have cut back my lighting on my Chaeto, but I am thinking about just tossing about 50% of it. I have also picked up NeoPhos, but haven't started using it yet. My Hanna Phosphate checker is kinda borderline on trying to land where I need to be, but right now the ICP test says undetectable which probably not good.