Unconventional Calcium Reactor for the average reefer!!

[McPuff]

Interesting. Sounds like you live in the middle of nowhere! I have always wanted to have an alk circ system. Imagine one large calcium reactor with a circulation loop. The calcium reactor is controlled to
Maintain and exact pH. Then for each system you have, you just figure out the drip rate needed to maintain alk. For people with a lot of systems this would be great.

This is a cool idea. I'm curious though on how well it would work with different drip rates for each system. You'd almost need an effluent manifold and then each system would be fed from that. What would be the reason for doing this versus just having a common sump where there in only need for one effluent rate?

 

[KenO]

This is an easier way vs yeast to generate CO2. I’ve used it on nano FW planted tanks. All you need is citric acid, vinegar and baking soda. You can buy the kit that has all the tubing, pressure gauge, etc for about $20 online. Mine would last about 3-4 weeks before I had to refill.

 

[McDam]

This sound like too much work for too little benefit. Too much to do mean much problem ahead in the future road!

It’s actually not much work at all. I find it much more manageable than kalkwasser or two part. And a lot more stable and providing all three elements proportionally.

 

[McDam]

This is an easier way vs yeast to generate CO2. I’ve used it on nano FW planted tanks. All you need is citric acid, vinegar and baking soda. You can buy the kit that has all the tubing, pressure gauge, etc for about $20 online. Mine would last about 3-4 weeks before I had to refill.

Thanks KenO. I was considering a similar setup in order to have two bottles of club soda for longer time between refills. I am preferring dosing the liquid at this point rather than just CO2 however, it would last longer without intervention I am sure. I may have to give this a try.

 

[KenO]

Thanks KenO. I was considering a similar setup in order to have two bottles of club soda for longer time between refills. I am preferring dosing the liquid at this point rather than just CO2 however, it would last longer without intervention I am sure. I may have to give this a try.

I still have the parts in the picture. I decided to order the reactor from BRS, it’s still on special plus I had a bunch of reward points. I’m going to give this a try to see how how it is going to work. I have a brand new bag of citric acid and a huge bag of baking soda. Will be interesting to see how it works.

 

[McDam]

I still have the parts in the picture. I decided to order the reactor from BRS, it’s still on special plus I had a bunch of reward points. I’m going to give this a try to see how how it is going to work. I have a brand new bag of citric acid and a huge bag of baking soda. Will be interesting to see how it works.

That’s great. Will you be using a dosing pump to control the co2 into the reactor or just the needle valve? A dosing pump should work if u have one around. I tested mine using an air compressor to see what kind of pressure it could handle and it pushed bubbles no problem up to 60 psi. Might go higher but that was more than enough. Also start slow to avoid any alk spike.

The valve that comes with the reactor I used as the union/bulkhead for the co2. It’s just a ball type valve and not much good for any flow control. Drilled a second hole in the lid then stuck one end of the valve in and glued with pvc glue. I use a very basic air line valve

to regulate effluent dip/flow into the tank.

 

[McDam]

Also #KenO, feel free to post any updates and pictures here of your trials and set up, it would be nice to have all the information in one spot for others reference.

 

[KenO]

That’s great. Will you be using a dosing pump to control the co2 into the reactor or just the needle valve? A dosing pump should work if u have one around. I tested mine using an air compressor to see what kind of pressure it could handle and it pushed bubbles no problem up to 60 psi. Might go higher but that was more than enough. Also start slow to avoid any alk spike.

The valve that comes with the reactor I used as the union/bulkhead for the co2. It’s just a ball type valve and not much good for any flow control. Drilled a second hole in the lid then stuck one end of the valve in and glued with pvc glue. I use a very basic air line valve

to regulate effluent dip/flow into the tank.

No need for a dosing pump with the CO2. It's a gas and the soda bottles will build a slight pressure so the CO2 will bubble out into the reactor on their own. The valve on the soda bottle setup will work just fine for adjusting the CO2 bubbles. I have fittings similar to what the reactor already has for snugging down on the CO2 tubing. I can drill a hole in the cap and insert the fitting for my CO2 tubing. I will probably run the CO2 tube to the bottom of the reactor or see if I can have the CO2 bubbles feed into the pump so that they get chopped up. I don't have a ceramic disc/diffusor, but if needed I can get one to make the CO2 bubbles smaller. Biggest concern is getting a buildup of CO2 at the top of the reactor. Having a DC powered pump in the reactor will help to adjust the flow within the reactor. More water movement will help to get the CO2 absorbed into the water.

I do have a needle valve, but it has the standard RO QD fittings on it. I'm assuming the tubing coming out of the reactor is airline type tubing. If the fitting on the top of the reactor will hold/fit the standard RO tubing I can use that. I'm sure that there is a fitting that goes from airline tubing to the RO size if needed.

Also #KenO, feel free to post any updates and pictures here of your trials and set up, it would be nice to have all the information in one spot for others reference.

Will do. I'm looking forward to testing this. I have a 100 gallon setup I am going to try this on. If the soda bottle doesn't work, I do have a standard 5lb CO2 bottle, regulator, bubble counter, etc I can use, but I really want to get the soda bottle setup working. The citric acid/baking soda worked well for growing plants in FW, so it should work. The reactor from BRS won't get to me until next Thursday. I'm hoping to get the DIY Cal Rx up and running over the following weekend.

 

[McDam]

Sounds great. I cant wait to see how it goes.

The Tubing coming our of the reactor is RO type.

The CO2 injected into the top of the reactor should not be a problem. The pump should suck it right down the suction tube in the middle. You could have an extra couple inches of tube go through the top and just inside of the suction tube easily enough.

Where did you find the the fitting for snugging down the CO2 line? Is it a barbed fitting with a clamp down cap? I have been looking for another one but haven't been able to track one down.

 

[KenO]

I use to have a company building LED lighting systems for FW and SW aquariums. I use to use these NPT Cable Glands to hold cables in place. I would get them from Ferrules Direct. They use to send out free samples, not sure if they still do that or not. You can check their website or give them a call. If they do still send samples you could get one of each. If not, PM me I can send you a couple. I have the gland, washer and nut. Should make a water tight connection. It will hold tight either the RO or Airline type tubing.

 

[KenO]

I also have a small gate valve. It came off my larger CAL Rx unit. I don't have it setup yet, but I am going to be using a Kamoer pump on it so I won't need the gate valve. I also picked up a couple of these filters which are suppose to help keep the gate valve from clogging. They are fuel filters for a diesel engine. I picked up a few. I am going to toss one of them on to keep the gate valve clean.

 

[KenO]

Sounds great. I cant wait to see how it goes.

The Tubing coming our of the reactor is RO type.

The CO2 injected into the top of the reactor should not be a problem. The pump should suck it right down the suction tube in the middle. You could have an extra couple inches of tube go through the top and just inside of the suction tube easily enough.

Where did you find the the fitting for snugging down the CO2 line? Is it a barbed fitting with a clamp down cap? I have been looking for another one but haven't been able to track one down.

It was hard to tell from the pictures online that there is a suction tube in the middle of the reactor. That is good to know. Yes, running the airline tubing or RO tubing down the suction tube will be perfect. Looking forward to getting this project going. I just need the reactor. I also found the instructions for the soda bottle CO2. I will copy it and post it.

 

[McDam]

I had a quick read about it today as well. Sounds like it will work great.
Thanks for the info in the cable glands. Similar to what I used on the original “bottle” but nice and small.

Is the filter a water separator. Or to eliminate moisture getting through.

Ps. Hold off on the kemoer. I might have something coming that might interest you.

 

[KenO]

I had a quick read about it today as well. Sounds like it will work great.
Thanks for the info in the cable glands. Similar to what I used on the original “bottle” but nice and small.

Is the filter a water separator. Or to eliminate moisture getting through.

Ps. Hold off on the kemoer. I might have something coming that might interest you.

The filter goes on the output side of the reactor before the gate valve. It's to keep any of the dissolved particles from the media from clogging the gate or metering valve.

Too late on Kamoer pump, I picked it up already. But my interest is peaked on what you have.

 

[McDam]

Ah yes that makes more sense, on the effluent side. I See.
So far I haven't see much build up or particulate coming out. Due to the reactors design it doesn't get to the drain line. If it does get to the top it would just get sucked back down through the pump.

Congrats on the Kamoer, I am looking at something similar (continuous dosing) but with the ability to control it via APEX! Really no different than the Kamoer but the control-ability from anywhere could be a significant benefit. And if they ever add set point control then it could automatically adjust for pH changes within the reactor as well as dynamic dosing dependent of alkalinity measurements (Trident or manual test entries). I put an order in for the pumps then I will have a bit of work and testing to do, but I will most definitely post results. Good or bad.
Possibly a cheaper solution also compared to the dos, and would be compatible with APEX Classic. Without all the convenient settings and such that is preconfigured in Fusion although. Also, no simple calibration for dosing a fixed amount of fluid. But with continuous dosing I think that is irrelevant.

Also, A heads up on one issue I discovered the other night. The DC recirc pump has a feed mode which stops the pump for a set period. I was trying a different configuration on the reactor so I put it in "feed mode" so I dint have water spraying all over. When the pump stops it is no longer drawing water in therefor the water can now drain back to the sump through the self-priming port and dumps the contents of the reactor. One easy solution to this is if you need to stop flow, just to turn it down to the slowest speed which maintains water level in the reactor. Or next time I take it out of the sump I might try and put a check valve on it so that it can suck in but not drain back out.

 

[KenO]

Ah yes that makes more sense, on the effluent side. I See.
So far I haven't see much build up or particulate coming out. Due to the reactors design it doesn't get to the drain line. If it does get to the top it would just get sucked back down through the pump.

Congrats on the Kamoer, I am looking at something similar (continuous dosing) but with the ability to control it via APEX! Really no different than the Kamoer but the control-ability from anywhere could be a significant benefit. And if they ever add set point control then it could automatically adjust for pH changes within the reactor as well as dynamic dosing dependent of alkalinity measurements (Trident or manual test entries). I put an order in for the pumps then I will have a bit of work and testing to do, but I will most definitely post results. Good or bad.
Possibly a cheaper solution also compared to the dos, and would be compatible with APEX Classic. Without all the convenient settings and such that is preconfigured in Fusion although. Also, no simple calibration for dosing a fixed amount of fluid. But with continuous dosing I think that is irrelevant.

Also, A heads up on one issue I discovered the other night. The DC recirc pump has a feed mode which stops the pump for a set period. I was trying a different configuration on the reactor so I put it in "feed mode" so I dint have water spraying all over. When the pump stops it is no longer drawing water in therefor the water can now drain back to the sump through the self-priming port and dumps the contents of the reactor. One easy solution to this is if you need to stop flow, just to turn it down to the slowest speed which maintains water level in the reactor. Or next time I take it out of the sump I might try and put a check valve on it so that it can suck in but not drain back out.

Yes keep us posted on the pump you are working on. I can always use another Kamoer type pump.

So I can see some issues with the contents of the reactor dumping out into the sump. I looked at the calcium reactor they make and that one doesn’t have a way to stop the water mixture in the reactor from dumping out either. My bigger concern is during a power fail. I don’t have the reactor yet, but dumping the lower pH, higher ALK water is not a good idea. Will have to see about putting a check valve like you suggested on it. What size check valve do you think will fit?

 

[McDam]

I think a simple airline check valve should work. As the self priming line is just that.

That was my worry exactly, a power outage but in that case the return pump would be down as well and not pumping high alk into display. And on the other hand it doesn’t hold a whole lot of water and the potency may not be enough to cause a large alk swing. I didn’t see a large spike although I didn’t test right away.
More just something I wanted to give a heads up on.

 

[McDam]

So moving forward with this project, my "Unconventional" Calcium reactor just took a very conventional turn!! yet still some what non-conventional.

I ordered some parts from a online brewing supply to move this project along a little further.

All part of the planned evolution.
-Soda Stream bottle adapter
- low pressure regulator
- carbonation cap for 2L bottle
- and a carbonation kit to connect the regulator to the carbonation cap.







The Idea with this equipment was that I would be able to make the carbonated water right in the bottle used for dosing and not have to make it in the soda stream bottles then transfer. This worked fine and there are video's on youtube of how it works.


But I also had an alternative motive and that was to be able to connect the soda stream directly to the reactor!! #Water Dog

Now I have got to admit, one of the things that has always tweaked me the wrong way about calcium reactors was that, besides being so big, bulky, and expensive, is all the valves and regulators and ph controllers, solenoids, bubble counters, auxiliary equipment and pumps etc. etc.. It all seem's so archaic and ridiculous. I know lately the use of pumps like the kamoer and such are being used to regulate the effluent but why not CO2!? Get ride of all the unnecessary pumps,valves, and bubbles. This would essentially eliminate the need for large bulky regulator, bubble counter, solenoids, needle valves and whatever else. If you could eliminate all this complexity would it not make calcium reactors more user friendly and adoptable instead of people running in the other direction, terrified and using nonequivalent dosing regimes. lol Never mind the complex set up and tuning. And counting bubbles.... Bubbles Bubbles Bubbles.

So, gone away with those conventional standards I went ahead and connected the Soda Stream Bottle directly to my setup. (Now now, I am not completely moving away from the fluid C02 method I was using as I still see a large benefit to being able to add additional supplements to the Soda Water, for an all in one dos. In fact I still have plans on a way to include that in the future

I did have to improvise a little bit But that's what DIY is all about.
Since the barbed fitting that came with the regulator was 1/4" I had to reduce it in order to connect the tubing of the dosing pump that was previously dosing the Soda water. I am sure I could have ordered a proper sized barbed fitting but ain't nobody got time for that.;Facepalm







I turned the regulator to 5 psi and presto! The peristaltic dosing pump works great for this application. Carefully metering the CO2 dosed to the reactor and doesn't let any CO2 leak by while it is not on or turning (Even this pump that is roughly 7 yo and never changed the tubing).

Now, the dosing pump I have still leaves a lot to be desired and was literally the cheapest one I could find at the time. Its minimum dosing rate is once ever hour at a rate of 0 - 99 ml. I had it set to about 35 ml every hour for the Soda Water so I dialed it back a bit to see where it would sit. At 20ml every hour it maintains a 6.6 average pH.

Since the dosing pump only runs once every hour it is similar to a typical solenoid setup with a ph controller that opens at a set point and turns off at a set-point. For example turn on at 7 ph and turn of at 6.5 pH. So similar to dosing the CS , and CO2 with solenoid, there are inherent swings that come with dosing once every hour but they are very adequate to be able to keep the water in the reactor saturated enough for consistent dosing.

So now you have a calcium reactor that can literally fit in the foot print of a small shoe box, for the "Average Reefer" with system volume up to 150-200 gal.

I will try to get a picture of the full setup and a break down of parts and pricing to see where it sits at this point. I think if #BRS was interested they could part this together and sell as a complete package for a very reasonable price. I would love to, but unfortunately don't have those kind of resources and stuck in the middle of nowhere.;Smuggrin

Next step would be continuous dosing with a pump for CO2 and a pump for effluent.
By starting off with a Higher ph setpoint and regulating the dosing pump to match alk stability. Once the effluent dos is maxed out you simply just lower the targeted pH and start increasing the effluent dos again and so on and so forth until you reach stability. Doesn't get much simpler than that.

I have no idea at this point how long the Soda stream tank will last. I am sure someone would be able to calculate it but I would rather just wait and see.

 

[KenO]

Would a motorized ball valve work in place of the dosing pump? Might need a gate valve to limit the CO2 flow.

https://ussolid.com/motorized-ball-valve-1-4-stainless-steel-2-wire-auto-return-9-24-v-dc-ac.html

 

[McDam]

It would basically be the same as a solenoid valve. Because the CO2 is pressurized my though is it would just pass through when ever open independent of weather it’s 10% open or 100%. But if you are not trying to regulate it then yes it would work. You might have a bit of regulation very close to closed but it would be limited. But hey. We are trying new things and the price is right. Who knows it may work just fine for the application. It all depends what you are trying to achieve. You could set it up to pulse open a couple times every couple seconds or minutes. I have seen a very similar setup injecting compressed stench gas in a mine. And they just pulse the valve for half a second every 3 seconds of so until the pressure drops and the compressed gas is all gone. You would still want to regulate the high psi coming directly from the tank. This would help control flow better and it wouldn’t just blast out a bunch of CO2. Assuming it’s from a highly pressure I’m not sure a gate valve would cut it.
But that said, depending on what kind of pressure you get from your set up it would most definitely do the trick.