Understanding biopellets

[sioloy]

Here's my DIY reactor and setup

Reactor is about 18 inches tall x 3 inch diameter tube, the effluent goes to a small carbon media then to the sump. The 1/2 inch silicone is the source another 1/2 silicone output (not seen here) is for flushing the media once a year.
Hope that helps.

 

[pelagic]

I would like to start new topic to understand how the biopellets working ,
I've been running my ecobak plus biopellets for almost 2 months and i dont see in change in my parameter till now , my nitrate reading 25 ppm and i have fighting this issue for long time .
What i want to know from biopellets users is the tumbling and how it should be beneficial cause they recommend to be gentle tumbling .
So how supose to be running,i have video and will post it to show hiw it was before and after reducing tumbling .
For more info i will drop it in comments.
Here is was its tumbling now
Ecobak plus biopellets: http://youtu.be/1c6Vn0zfMk0

And how the flow was before
Echobak biopellets: http://youtu.be/_KVFhcBNf9c

I am not sure if you have it resolved yet after you does the phosphate.
I did have the same issue, and I does'd 0.03 PPM PO4 to the tank everyday, the Nitrate reduced from about 75ppm to less than 25 in about a month.
Your Nitrate were stored in a solid form (dust) in your rock and the sand. You need to clean them out as well as you can.


here's what I have posted in our local reef club form
https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/mi...-granular-ferric-oxide-phosban-unless%85.html


I started to tell people not to use GFO after I found out about what happened to my tank, especially when you have a larger tank. Here are the reasons:

Reason 1: Nitrate and Phosphate are both required for the creatures in the tank
Redfield ratio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Redfield ratio or Redfield stoichiometry is the atomic ratio of carbon, nitrogen and phosphorus found in phytoplankton and throughout the deep oceans. This empirically developed stoichiometric ratio is found to be C:N = 106:16:1. The Nitrate(NO3) to Phosphate(PO4) Ratio to keep is about 20:1 to 30:1. You don't have to chase the numbers if your corals are doing fine and healthy.

Reason 2: Higher Phosphate and Nitrate will not necessary kill your corals, but NP imbalance will
http://youtu.be/ZRIKW-9d2xI

Reason 3: If you have bio-pellets/Cheto/ATS, it won’t work well with GFO
Eventually, P will always be un-detectable, because it’s used/absorbed as soon as it’s produced. Your nitrate will raise slowly until your corals start dying, it will trigger the chain reaction and crash your tank.

TO Use GFO When:

• You have a small tank, and you can change more than 25% of the water at a time. This way, when you have nitrate issue, you can export the nitrate fairly easily
• You have Zeolite to absorb Nitrogen, before it turns into Nitrate. You should not have the issue to control both N and P at a low level with the zeolite, and GFO
• When you Nitrate to Phosphate ratio is less than 10, and your phosphate is relatively high (let say 0.5 PPM)

DO NOT USE GFO when:

• You have Bio-Pellets, it’s a big no no! To adjust nitrate/phosphate ratio, simply feed animal based food when the nitrate is too high, vice versa. It’s because animal based food contains more phosphate.
• You can’t change more than 25% of the water, NP Balance Issue.
• When you have large amount of live rock, sand and hard to clean area in your tank. Nitrate can be stored in a solid form (dust) and stay in your sand and rock and release it slowly. If you don’t have phosphate, and you can’t keep up with water change for a period of time, your nitrate level will rise quicker than phosphate.

If your NP Ratio is far off
Let say more than 100:1, at one point, my phosphate was constantly at 0 (hanna 736) and nitrate was over 100. You can

• Feed More Animal based food
• Water Change
• Zeolite
• Nitrate Reactor
• Deep Sand bed
• Dose Phosphate
  (eg: Seachem. Flourish Phosphorus)
• Make sure you are not adding more than 0.03 PPM PO4 to your tank a day. Monitor your PO4 and PH Level daily at least for the first few days.
• PS: Hanna 713 Tests Phosphate in PPM, 736 tests Phosphorous in PPB
  Example: Hanna 736 reads 12 PPB, then it’s 12 x 3.066 / 1000 = .0367 ppm PO4

I hope it helps with people planning on adding/currently using GFO now. It's surely a double edged sword.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I'd have to say I disagree with some of the points above.

For example, I use vinegar, macroalgae and GFO at the same time, and I think that a good plan as they can each make up for deficiencies in the others.

 

[1guydude]

Ok I gotta chime in. Lol

Imo algae will absorb and eat phosphates faster than being bacterial processed or watever u wanna call it.
I run pellets. Do they feed? More like provide space for bacteria to grow. The aerobic and anaerobic or oxygen and lack of oxygen feed the bacteria...Imo OP is messing with the tank to much to get solid variable.

Edit: why r u trying to lower ur nitrates? How old is the tank and Initial cycle...did I miss that? Thxs and hths
D

 

[GreatWhiteTang]

I also run pellets, gfo, and a refugium with red gracilaria, nitrates and phosphates are all near 0 and when one of the filters begins to expire or needs new media added the others pick up the slack. I understand the nutrient limitations for bacteria and how that works, but I don't think that's the answer in this situation. I think the OP needs to do less and let the bacterial build and nature run its course for his system. I saw that in the middle there was a full sand swap and a 100% water change. Nothing happens overnight and especially bio media's.. They take months to become reliable nutrient exporters, and everytime you change them u slow that process down.

 

[pelagic]

A bit of the background of what I did. My nitrate was very high, and I had not tested it for years. I only followed the Phosphate. My phosphate was at 0 constantly for a long time. I started to see SPS dying early last year, but I couldn’t find the reason. Out of frustration and work, I stopped doing water change.
I finally got back to it, started to change water religiously, and bought the Nitrate test kit. That’s when I found out why I couldn’t keep SPS, my Nitrate was too high and Phosphate was at 0. In the meanwhile, cyanobacteria took over my tank, and the new SPS were not doing great despite how many water changes I’ve done.
I started to dose 0.03PPM of phosphate, use the zeolite reactor. In 90 days, Nitrate dropped from 75 to 5PPM (tested yesterday).

• The OP has biopellets
• The OP has nitrate issue, and he couldn’t get it down
• The OP has 0 phosphate tested

When there’s not enough phosphate in the tank, and you have relatively high nitrate, the biopellets simply can’t work well, especially when you add GFO on top of the problem.

I'd have to say I disagree with some of the points above.
For example, I use vinegar, macroalgae and GFO at the same time, and I think that a good plan as they can each make up for deficiencies in the others.

I agree with you, the best way to keep nitrate low is to keep it low in the first place with the solutions you mentioned. OP’s tank is already in the NP imbalance stat, the solution will work, but it will just take longer.

Ok I gotta chime in. Lol
Imo algae will absorb and eat phosphates faster than being bacterial processed or whatever u wanna call it. I run pellets. Do they feed? More like provide space for bacteria to grow. The aerobic and anaerobic or oxygen and lack of oxygen feed the bacteria...Imo OP is messing with the tank too much to get solid variable.

Edit: why r u trying to lower ur nitrates? How old is the tank and Initial cycle...did I miss that? Thxs and hths
D

Biopellets not only provides place for the bacteria to grow, it also provides carbon which is very limited in the aquarium. That is why it’s also called solid carbon source. I am not sure algae can outgrow bacteria or out-use nutrients in the water. If you add too much carbon to the water, you will see the water gets cloudy, that’s because of the bacteria boom.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lMaAQwyV-M&feature=player_embedded

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I agree that it is possible the nitrate export is phosphate limited, and adding a little may help nitrate decline.

Backing off or removing the GFO is one way to accomplish that. If you need more, Seachem Flourish Phosphorus can be used.

 

[Jon Warner]

A bit of the background of what I did. My nitrate was very high, and I had not tested it for years. I only followed the Phosphate. My phosphate was at 0 constantly for a long time. I started to see SPS dying early last year, but I couldn’t find the reason. Out of frustration and work, I stopped doing water change.
I finally got back to it, started to change water religiously, and bought the Nitrate test kit. That’s when I found out why I couldn’t keep SPS, my Nitrate was too high and Phosphate was at 0. In the meanwhile, cyanobacteria took over my tank, and the new SPS were not doing great despite how many water changes I’ve done.
I started to dose 0.03PPM of phosphate, use the zeolite reactor. In 90 days, Nitrate dropped from 75 to 5PPM (tested yesterday).

• The OP has biopellets
• The OP has nitrate issue, and he couldn’t get it down
• The OP has 0 phosphate tested

When there’s not enough phosphate in the tank, and you have relatively high nitrate, the biopellets simply can’t work well, especially when you add GFO on top of the problem.




I agree with you, the best way to keep nitrate low is to keep it low in the first place with the solutions you mentioned. OP’s tank is already in the NP imbalance stat, the solution will work, but it will just take longer.


Biopellets not only provides place for the bacteria to grow, it also provides carbon which is very limited in the aquarium. That is why it’s also called solid carbon source. I am not sure algae can outgrow bacteria or out-use nutrients in the water. If you add too much carbon to the water, you will see the water gets cloudy, that’s because of the bacteria boom.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lMaAQwyV-M&feature=player_embedded

Agree 100% about the GFO

 

[Volpone]

I am not sure if you have it resolved yet after you does the phosphate.
I did have the same issue, and I does'd 0.03 PPM PO4 to the tank everyday, the Nitrate reduced from about 75ppm to less than 25 in about a month.
Your Nitrate were stored in a solid form (dust) in your rock and the sand. You need to clean them out as well as you can.


here's what I have posted in our local reef club form
https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/mi...-granular-ferric-oxide-phosban-unless%85.html


I started to tell people not to use GFO after I found out about what happened to my tank, especially when you have a larger tank. Here are the reasons:

Reason 1: Nitrate and Phosphate are both required for the creatures in the tank
Redfield ratio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Redfield ratio or Redfield stoichiometry is the atomic ratio of carbon, nitrogen and phosphorus found in phytoplankton and throughout the deep oceans. This empirically developed stoichiometric ratio is found to be C:N = 106:16:1. The Nitrate(NO3) to Phosphate(PO4) Ratio to keep is about 20:1 to 30:1. You don't have to chase the numbers if your corals are doing fine and healthy.

Reason 2: Higher Phosphate and Nitrate will not necessary kill your corals, but NP imbalance will
http://youtu.be/ZRIKW-9d2xI

Reason 3: If you have bio-pellets/Cheto/ATS, it won’t work well with GFO
Eventually, P will always be un-detectable, because it’s used/absorbed as soon as it’s produced. Your nitrate will raise slowly until your corals start dying, it will trigger the chain reaction and crash your tank.

TO Use GFO When:

• You have a small tank, and you can change more than 25% of the water at a time. This way, when you have nitrate issue, you can export the nitrate fairly easily
• You have Zeolite to absorb Nitrogen, before it turns into Nitrate. You should not have the issue to control both N and P at a low level with the zeolite, and GFO
• When you Nitrate to Phosphate ratio is less than 10, and your phosphate is relatively high (let say 0.5 PPM)

DO NOT USE GFO when:

• You have Bio-Pellets, it’s a big no no! To adjust nitrate/phosphate ratio, simply feed animal based food when the nitrate is too high, vice versa. It’s because animal based food contains more phosphate.
• You can’t change more than 25% of the water, NP Balance Issue.
• When you have large amount of live rock, sand and hard to clean area in your tank. Nitrate can be stored in a solid form (dust) and stay in your sand and rock and release it slowly. If you don’t have phosphate, and you can’t keep up with water change for a period of time, your nitrate level will rise quicker than phosphate.

If your NP Ratio is far off
Let say more than 100:1, at one point, my phosphate was constantly at 0 (hanna 736) and nitrate was over 100. You can

• Feed More Animal based food
• Water Change
• Zeolite
• Nitrate Reactor
• Deep Sand bed
• Dose Phosphate
  (eg: Seachem. Flourish Phosphorus)
• Make sure you are not adding more than 0.03 PPM PO4 to your tank a day. Monitor your PO4 and PH Level daily at least for the first few days.
• PS: Hanna 713 Tests Phosphate in PPM, 736 tests Phosphorous in PPB
  Example: Hanna 736 reads 12 PPB, then it’s 12 x 3.066 / 1000 = .0367 ppm PO4

I hope it helps with people planning on adding/currently using GFO now. It's surely a double edged sword.

Im not using GFO or any media for po4 , i sccueed raising up phosphate to 0.07 usinh phosphor flourish from seachem .
All what i want now to understand the tunning of bio pellets reactor .
Its so confused some said gentle tumbling some say very low flow , some running them with high flow .
My ecobak plus reactor is running in medium flow now , i hope i can reach good result .
Here us pic for nitrate test before 3 days ago

 

[Moonlightreef]

Watch this video it will help you to understand how the biopellets work , Hope this help .

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9UtgjkEg8EY

 

[Eckolancer]

From what I've heard you need to keep the biopellets in complete darkness (or as close as possible. I have mine in my sump and took the macro algae offline. My nitrate is always 0 phosphates with Hanna checker range from .004-.006. I feed heavy and have a lot of fish in my reef. Also, I don't do water changes. It's been little over a year and only did a 10gallon change to siphon the sump out.

 

[Moonlightreef]

From what I've heard you need to keep the biopellets in complete darkness (or as close as possible. I have mine in my sump and took the macro algae offline. My nitrate is always 0 phosphates with Hanna checker range from .004-.006. I feed heavy and have a lot of fish in my reef. Also, I don't do water changes. It's been little over a year and only did a 10gallon change to siphon the sump out.

what type of colors do you keep ?

 

[Eckolancer]

what type of colors do you keep ?

 

[redfishbluefish]

From what I've heard you need to keep the biopellets in complete darkness (or as close as possible..............

You don't have to keep them in the darkness, but it is highly recommended. The bacteria grow and reproduce faster in the dark. I was fortunate in that my reactor was 4 inches and a short piece of drain pipe fit perfectly. I cut the pipe lengthwise and put a piece of black electical tape on the reactor where this seam was located. I also included a little door to check on the fellows.





Now they can do their magic in total darkness!

 

[aquariumrescueunit]

So heres my question GFO or Phosguard biopellets?

 

[redfishbluefish]

So heres my question GFO or Phosguard biopellets?

GFO removes phosphates and needs to be replaced periodically....between two weeks to a month or so.


Biopellets removes nitrates and phosphates (both actually needed) and needs to be replenished as the bacteria consume same.


What are you nitrate and phosphate levels?

 

[aquariumrescueunit]

My nitrates stay under 5ppm which I've been told is perfectly normal and my phosphates stay at 0 since I run GFO but I'm just asking what does everyone prefer biopellets or GFO?

 

[cumbeje]

I use GFO and bio-pellets in my 700 gal reef and not have seen these issues. I think that every tank is different. What is most important is what works for you tank.

 

[Moonlightreef]

I use GFO and bio-pellets in my 700 gal reef and not have seen these issues. I think that every tank is different. What is most important is what works for you tank.

you couldnt say it any better , every tank is different , but i believe its harder to balance smaller tank then larger tank do to water volume . you have pictures of the monster by any chance ?

 

[cumbeje]

Here is a couple of shots of my 700 Gal.