Understanding copper treatment

PghReef · Apr 3, 2019

So I finally reached therapeutic dose in my qt. With the hanna checker it was 1.62 after dosing this morning. I'm still going to doseto 1.75 before I start the 30 day clock tomorrow. The fish are very active and seem to be eating well. I'm assuming the reason for the 1.75 level of copper when 1.5 is therapeutic is to allow for error?

I've been reading about fish having a hard time making it through 30 days because of bacterial infections. I see nothing to make me think these guys have any infection brewing. Is this something that pops up later in treatment because of immunosupression? Is this a common problem with all fish or just ones that are more sensitive and prone to issues like butterflies? I dont have another tank to transfer to or a tank to seed filtration media at the end of treatment as the dt is running fallow. The fish are 2 clowns and a blue hippo tang so in assuming they are good candidates for my first run at qt rather than more sensitive species.

Also how much should I feed these guys in qt? I decided to keep feeding lrs reef frenzy since its probably a good idea to keep them as healthy as possible but dont want to pollute the water. Been feeding just once a day as much as they can eat within 5 minutes and no more. I do have an ammonia alert badge which is showing no ammonia after a week of doing this. Should I start a wc protocol on a qt like I would a dt? Or just let it go until any signs of ammonia show on the badge. The filtration media was very well established so I'm hoping I dont see any spikes in ammonia

Frtdrmrose7 · Apr 3, 2019

Bacterial infections usually start from a wound either from an entrance point for ich/velvet or even flukes. The reason this happens is copper suppresses the immune system of the fish being treated. Typically fish who haven’t been ravaged by a parasite can make it through copper without a secondary infection.
Yes 1.75ppm with copper power (cheleted copper) is recommended to give you some wiggle room. I’ve had wrasse that were sensitive at 1.75ppm so I lowered it to 1.60 without a problem. If you do need to run closer to the minimum of 1.50ppm then I would recommend the Hanna checker. Just keep in mind the Hanna has a *+/- of 5ppm(if I remember correctly).

PghReef · Apr 3, 2019

Frtdrmrose7 said:
Bacterial infections usually start from a wound either from an entrance point for ich/velvet or even flukes. The reason this happens is copper suppresses the immune system of the fish being treated. Typically fish who haven’t been ravaged by a parasite can make it through copper without a secondary infection.
Yes 1.75ppm with copper power (cheleted copper) is recommended to give you some wiggle room. I’ve had wrasse that were sensitive at 1.75ppm so I lowered it to 1.60 without a problem. If you do need to run closer to the minimum of 1.50ppm then I would recommend the Hanna checker. Just keep in mind the Hanna has a *+/- of 5ppm(if I remember correctly).

I am using a hanna checker,I assume you mean .05 maybe and not 5ppm? As in 1.75 could be 1.70-1.80?
The clowns have no signs of ich but the tang does. Seems minor though only a few spots on the fish.

HotRocks · Apr 3, 2019

PghReef said:
So I finally reached therapeutic dose in my qt. With the hanna checker it was 1.62 after dosing this morning. I'm still going to doseto 1.75 before I start the 30 day clock tomorrow. The fish are very active and seem to be eating well. I'm assuming the reason for the 1.75 level of copper when 1.5 is therapeutic is to allow for error?

I've been reading about fish having a hard time making it through 30 days because of bacterial infections. I see nothing to make me think these guys have any infection brewing. Is this something that pops up later in treatment because of immunosupression? Is this a common problem with all fish or just ones that are more sensitive and prone to issues like butterflies? I dont have another tank to transfer to or a tank to seed filtration media at the end of treatment as the dt is running fallow. The fish are 2 clowns and a blue hippo tang so in assuming they are good candidates for my first run at qt rather than more sensitive species.

Also how much should I feed these guys in qt? I decided to keep feeding lrs reef frenzy since its probably a good idea to keep them as healthy as possible but dont want to pollute the water. Been feeding just once a day as much as they can eat within 5 minutes and no more. I do have an ammonia alert badge which is showing no ammonia after a week of doing this. Should I start a wc protocol on a qt like I would a dt? Or just let it go until any signs of ammonia show on the badge. The filtration media was very well established so I'm hoping I dont see any spikes in ammonia

Correct bacterial issues usually show up later in the process. Due to immune system suppression.

I only feed QTs frozen once a day, sometimes a pinch of flake in evenings.

You just want to make sure you aren't overfeeding and the fish are eating all food that you put in the tank.

WCs are usually only necessary for ammonia or water clarity. You will know if it's time for a WC.

Frtdrmrose7 · Apr 3, 2019

PghReef said:
I am using a hanna checker,I assume you mean .05 maybe and not 5ppm? As in 1.75 could be 1.70-1.80?
The clowns have no signs of ich but the tang does. Seems minor though only a few spots on the fish.

Yes sorry thought I had a decimal.05

PghReef · Apr 3, 2019

Is there anything I can do to lesson the chances of a ba teria infection setting in later in the process? Should I have anything on hand for immediate use like the reef rally or does it present with time to purchase what's needed?

Frtdrmrose7 · Apr 3, 2019

PghReef said:
Is there anything I can do to lesson the chances of a ba teria infection setting in later in the process? Should I have anything on hand for immediate use like the reef rally or does it present with time to purchase what's needed?

Bacterial infections can go sideways real quick and for some reason they always start on a Sunday or 10pm at night. I keep Metro, Kanaplex, Furan2,(Trifecta) on hand. I also have MB Methylene Blue and just reordered RRR. I also keep Prazi, and Genera Cure in hand. I’ve found with this box of meds I can handle 99% of anything that comes up.

PghReef · Apr 3, 2019

Wow that's quite a med box I feel I wouldn't even know where to begin or which treatment to use lol. I'm just hoping to make it through the copper and then do a prazi treatment to be safe. I figured those 2 things should keep disease out of my dt after going fallow.

Frtdrmrose7 · Apr 3, 2019

PghReef said:
Wow that's quite a med box I feel I wouldn't even know where to begin or which treatment to use lol. I'm just hoping to make it through the copper and then do a prazi treatment to be safe. I figured those 2 things should keep disease out of my dt after going fallow.

Copper and Prazi are good for the most common parasites like ich, velvet, and flukes.
I would recommend to you adding Metroplex or General Cure +Focus +food fed for 14 days to treat for internal parasites which are extremely common these days.
The Metro, Kanaplex, Furan 2 are typically dosed together for secondary infections.
Metro can also be dosed into the water to help treat brook and Uronema.

PghReef · Apr 3, 2019

Frtdrmrose7 said:
Copper and Prazi are good for the most common parasites like ich, velvet, and flukes.
I would recommend to you adding Metroplex or General Cure +Focus +food fed for 14 days to treat for internal parasites which are extremely common these days.
The Metro, Kanaplex, Furan 2 are typically dosed together for secondary infections.
Metro can also be dosed into the water to help treat brook and Uronema.

Would you suggest using general cure in the water in addition to the food instead of prazipro?

Frtdrmrose7 · Apr 3, 2019

PghReef said:
Would you suggest using general cure in the water in addition to the food instead of prazipro?

You can it has broader spectrum of treatment.

Big G · Apr 3, 2019

PghReef said:
Would you suggest using general cure in the water in addition to the food instead of prazipro?

Prazipro has a chemical, Oxybispropanol, to help keep the praziquantel in solution. The Oxybis, uses some of the O2 in the tank water. So it's really important to add O2: powerhead aimed up at the surface actively rippling the water surface (highest O2 exchange rate and highly recommend); a foam bubble filter (soak the foam part in BioSpira, Seachem Stability, etc.); or a couple of air bubblers to add O2 into the water column.