Unexplained death of bicolor angel

[hoffmeyerz]

I unexpectedly lost my bicolor angel today and I'm really perplexed at the situation. It has been in the tank for three months doing very well, even up to yesterday. I had not noticed any indication of parasites or other illness, it was being fed pellets in the morning and frozen brine or mysis shrimp at night. It was eating well and behaving normally swimming all around the tank.
Nothing has changed in the tank, parameters are pretty much the same and normal with the exception of low ALK.
Sal @ 1.025
Ammonia @ 0
Nitrate @ 15.7
Phosphate @ .13
ALK @ 5.5
Tank is 75 gal with a pretty low bioload of 3 pajama cardinals, 2 clownfish, the bicolor, and a snowflake eel, nothing else except a small cuc. Everyone was cohabitating well with no attack injuries.
What are the possibile culprits? Are bicolor angelfish more susceptible to something that I should have been looking out for?
I'm pretty bummed out and I want to make sure i take something away from this if there's something to learn.

 

[MnFish1]

I guess time to make a differential diagnosis:

1. Infections - after 3 months - unless you let something in unquarantined - probably not. (parasites here)
2. Toxic - unless it killed the others - probably not
3. A viral issue the fish came with?
4. Another internal problem - was it eating? Was it fat? Was it quarantined? If not - it could have starved.

 

[sc50964]

Do you have a pic of the dead angel? Can you talk about if there is anything unusual about it? Are the gills puffy and red?

 

[vetteguy53081]

I unexpectedly lost my bicolor angel today and I'm really perplexed at the situation. It has been in the tank for three months doing very well, even up to yesterday. I had not noticed any indication of parasites or other illness, it was being fed pellets in the morning and frozen brine or mysis shrimp at night. It was eating well and behaving normally swimming all around the tank.
Nothing has changed in the tank, parameters are pretty much the same and normal with the exception of low ALK.
Sal @ 1.025
Ammonia @ 0
Nitrate @ 15.7
Phosphate @ .13
ALK @ 5.5
Tank is 75 gal with a pretty low bioload of 3 pajama cardinals, 2 clownfish, the bicolor, and a snowflake eel, nothing else except a small cuc. Everyone was cohabitating well with no attack injuries.
What are the possibile culprits? Are bicolor angelfish more susceptible to something that I should have been looking out for?
I'm pretty bummed out and I want to make sure i take something away from this if there's something to learn.

Possible culprits are the clowns but without pics, hard to say what actually transpired. These fish are touch and go and Ive seen more fall down than survive long term due to method of capture.
Diet was somewhat inadequate as they like algae but need a variety of meats and food with omegas, fats and aminos.
Alk will not have an adverse effect on them unless it altered the Ph to a Low level.
Have you seen the clowns chase it away or any tail nipping ?

 

[hoffmeyerz]

I kept the fish in a qt for two weeks to observe before adding it to the tank. For my process I make sure I don't see signs of parasites and get them eating before moving over, if I see something that gives me paise i treat the qt. I saw no signs of anything with it so I did not treat the qt with anything.
Fish was super normal, no odd behavior, likes to zip around the tank and claim it's special cave spots. Even ate some silverfish off the tongs as I was feeding the eel last night.
Didn't look starved to me and gills seem fine, although I'm not well versed in gill issues.

 

[hoffmeyerz]

Possible culprits are the clowns but without pics, hard to say what actually transpired. These fish are touch and go and Ive seen more fall down than survive long term.
Diet was somewhat inadequate as they like algae but need a variety of meats and food with omegas, fats and aminos.
Alk will not have an adverse effect on them unless it altered the Ph to a Low level.
Have you seen the clowns chase it away or any tail nipping ?

I put in some nori a few times but it didn't touch it. Clowns never bothered it, as a matter of fact it put the clowns in their place! I had issues with the clowns bullying the pjs but the bicolor backed off the clowns.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I put in some nori a few times but it didn't touch it. Clowns never bothered it, as a matter of fact it put the clowns in their place! I had issues with the clowns bullying the pjs but the bicolor backed off the clowns.

Unfortunately with fish dead, will be unexplained as after especially two hours after death, most causes are undetectable unless samples placed under microscope

 

[hoffmeyerz]

Unfortunately with fish dead, will be unexplained as after especially two hours after death, most causes are undetectable unless samples placed under microscope

I understand. I'm just looking to learn what I can if I need to be doing something different/more. I was trying to vary the diet some, it would get pieces of scallop and silverfish every couple days when I fed the eel but the only thing it really gobbled up was the brine shrimp. I have zero algae in the tank and it didn't seem to care for nori.
I'll work harder in the future

 

[vetteguy53081]

I understand. I'm just looking to learn what I can if I need to be doing something different/more. I was trying to vary the diet some, it would get pieces of scallop and silverfish every couple days when I fed the eel but the only thing it really gobbled up was the brine shrimp. I have zero algae in the tank and it didn't seem to care for nori.
I'll work harder in the future

Scallop a maybe. . . silverfish best for lions, grouper, grunts and eels.
Being an omnivore, they will eat algae on rocks and glass which is needed to keep their colors but need high protein foods plus live and frozen Brine Shrimp, Mysis Shrimp, chopped krill as well as flake food and pellet food.

 

[hoffmeyerz]

Scallop a maybe. . . silverfish best for lions, grouper, grunts and eels.
Being an omnivore, they will eat algae on rocks and glass which is needed to keep their colors but need high protein foods plus live and frozen Brine Shrimp, Mysis Shrimp, chopped krill as well as flake food and pellet food.

Ok, thanks.
It would just come up and nip at the silverfish and scallop as I held it in the tongs between eel bites. It would nip on the rocks but like I said I have zero algae, that's why I tried the nori. It was primarily fed New Life Spectrum pellets and frozen brine and mysis shrimp, and prob twice got live brine.
I appreciate your feedback, thank you!

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Collection with cyanide is a huge issue with bicolor angels, they are tough to catch in nets and don’t earn the collectors much money, so they tend to “juice” them. This causes huge latent mortality later on. That said, most of that mortality is seen within 45 days, 90 days is still possible, but less likely.
Jay