Unexplained Tuxedo Urchin Death

[ZWesley]

Hello all, I got a tuxedo urchin a week or two ago and just a few days ago I noticed it was upside down on the sand, thinking none of it I left him but when I looked later he was still there. When I tried to pick him up it’s spines were falling off and it had no feelers. Current parameters are 0 nitrate and phosphates (I have some algae that is using it up before it can be tested. This was the reason for the urchin) and salinity is around 1.025 or so. Any info helps, thanks.

 

[T-J]

Tank temp, dKh and pH numbers?
How old is the tank? Can we see a FT shot to see what you have in the tank?

 

[ZWesley]

Tank temp, dKh and pH numbers?
How old is the tank? Can we see a FT shot to see what you have in the tank?

Tank temp is around 80 degrees, tank is around 6-7 months old, I don’t currently have test kits for dkh and ph. As for stocking I have 1 Midas blenny, 1 6 lined wrasse, 2 cardinals, 2 clownfish, a goby pistol shrimp pair, and 2 fusilier damsels (used to be 3 but one went missing. I suspect that this is the cause of my new problems). Corals are a Duncan, 2 zoanthids, and a John Deere something (I can’t remember the name but it is green and yellow and covers surfaces). CUC consists of a few hermits, 2 conchs, a few nassarius snails, an emerald crab, some trochus snails, and a cleaner shrimp. Other things include an anemone and anemone crab (gotten because most problems in my tank had subsided before this new wave). As for the pests, it was primarily just some new algae growth.

 

[T-J]

Tank temp is around 80 degrees, tank is around 6-7 months old, I don’t currently have test kits for dkh and ph. As for stocking I have 1 Midas blenny, 1 6 lined wrasse, 2 cardinals, 2 clownfish, a goby pistol shrimp pair, and 2 fusilier damsels (used to be 3 but one went missing. I suspect that this is the cause of my new problems). Corals are a Duncan, 2 zoanthids, and a John Deere something (I can’t remember the name but it is green and yellow and covers surfaces). CUC consists of a few hermits, 2 conchs, a few nassarius snails, an emerald crab, some trochus snails, and a cleaner shrimp. Other things include an anemone and anemone crab (gotten because most problems in my tank had subsided before this new wave). As for the pests, it was primarily just some new algae growth.

"Around" 80 degrees? Most would recommend 77-78 degrees, with less than a 1 degree variance. You should get test kits for all major params (dKh, pH, Calc, Nitrate, PO4). How big is this tank?
If you have a lot of algae, it could be pointing to other issues. Stability is key. Are you using an ATO? Pics of your setup?

 

[ZWesley]

"Around" 80 degrees? Most would recommend 77-78 degrees, with less than a 1 degree variance. You should get test kits for all major params (dKh, pH, Calc, Nitrate, PO4). How big is this tank?
If you have a lot of algae, it could be pointing to other issues. Stability is key. Are you using an ATO? Pics of your setup?

Ok, didn’t know that 80 degrees was too high. I will slowly lower the temp to the 77-78 range. The tank is 55 gallons. As for algae, it has primarily started to take over some rocks in my aquarium (particularly the one on the right) and the back of my tank. I still believe the cause is the missing damsel as they are typically up in 5e front of the aquarium unless my wrasse decides it doesn’t like them at that moment. I do not have an ATO however do have a simple hand pump to top off my sump. Sump consists of chaeto algae, protein skimmer, and GFO reactor. GFO reactor is because I have phosphates coming in with new water. Yes, I went through dinos but they mostly to completely receded. I was in the middle of trying to find timers to limit my equipment’s run time however just ran into this issue in which I made the decision to leave them on. For test kits, I have the API reef kit with nitrate, phosphate, copper, and KH (didn’t know if it was the same as dkh, so sorry if it is), do you have any recommendations for an all-in-one kit for the rest? Thanks.

 

[Simon Reefing]

I have mine in my tank and the temp is 82 degrees. i Would also say the biggest thing is stability. They are pretty sensitive to change

 

[CanuckReefer]

"Around" 80 degrees? Most would recommend 77-78 degrees, with less than a 1 degree variance. You should get test kits for all major params (dKh, pH, Calc, Nitrate, PO4). How big is this tank?
If you have a lot of algae, it could be pointing to other issues. Stability is key. Are you using an ATO? Pics of your setup?

Ok, didn’t know that 80 degrees was too high. I will slowly lower the temp to the 77-78 range. The tank is 55 gallons. As for algae, it has primarily started to take over some rocks in my aquarium (particularly the one on the right) and the back of my tank. I still believe the cause is the missing damsel as they are typically up in 5e front of the aquarium unless my wrasse decides it doesn’t like them at that moment. I do not have an ATO however do have a simple hand pump to top off my sump. Sump consists of chaeto algae, protein skimmer, and GFO reactor. GFO reactor is because I have phosphates coming in with new water. Yes, I went through dinos but they mostly to completely receded. I was in the middle of trying to find timers to limit my equipment’s run time however just ran into this issue in which I made the decision to leave them on. For test kits, I have the API reef kit with nitrate, phosphate, copper, and KH (didn’t know if it was the same as dkh, so sorry if it is), do you have any recommendations for an all-in-one kit for the rest? Thanks.

I have mine in my tank and the temp is 82 degrees. i Would also say the biggest thing is stability. They are pretty sensitive to change

Temp has nothing to do with it....I have had the same two urchins at 81-82 for over a decade. Yes stability as mentioned is big. Also your nitrates are pretty much non existent, they are voracious eaters. Suggest getting them above zero level. Feed more and algae wafers or the like if needed...go the natural route.

 

[ZWesley]

Temp has nothing to do with it....I have had the same two urchins at 81-82 for over a decade. Yes stability as mentioned is big. Also your nitrates are pretty much non existent, they are voracious eaters. Suggest getting them above zero level. Feed more and algae wafers or the like if needed...go the natural route.

Yeah, when I had him he was eating well. He actually cleaned off the left arch before he died. I found him flipped upside down at the back of the tank in the sand. I intended to get algae to supplement his diet after the algae started to run out but he didn’t make it that far. Is it possible for an urchin to get flipped upside down and not be able to flip themselves over? I was wondering this but then there is a lot of sand in the ocean. Thanks.

 

[CanuckReefer]

Yeah, when I had him he was eating well. He actually cleaned off the left arch before he died. I found him flipped upside down at the back of the tank in the sand. I intended to get algae to supplement his diet after the algae started to run out but he didn’t make it that far. Is it possible for an urchin to get flipped upside down and not be able to flip themselves over? I was wondering this but then there is a lot of sand in the ocean. Thanks.

Nah, every time mine get knocked off they always right themselves, especially tuxedo/ pincushion variety. I think its the lack of natural diet. They prefer a mature tank, and until that point you may have to supplement.

 

[Jilly92]

Hello all, I got a tuxedo urchin a week or two ago and just a few days ago I noticed it was upside down on the sand, thinking none of it I left him but when I looked later he was still there. When I tried to pick him up it’s spines were falling off and it had no feelers. Current parameters are 0 nitrate and phosphates (I have some algae that is using it up before it can be tested. This was the reason for the urchin) and salinity is around 1.025 or so. Any info helps, thanks.

What algae do you have?

 

[ZWesley]

What algae do you have?

Frankly I think it is a mix of a couple different types, I can see some green hair, diatoms, and some green colored algae that just kind of grows but only in 2d. I posted a pic further up if you would like a photo reference.

 

[Jilly92]

Frankly I think it is a mix of a couple different types, I can see some green hair, diatoms, and some green colored algae that just kind of grows but only in 2d. I posted a pic further up if you would like a photo reference.

If you had a microscope you could ID if you had any toxic algae. I couldn't really tell from the photo. But dinos will release a toxin and pull oxygen from the water and it will suffocate/poison the fish and inverts are usually the first to go. If water tests are fine, I would purchase a cheap microscope so you could positively ID what you're working with.

 

[ying yang]

Im new to saltwater but i would be asking how did you aclimintise the urchin as inverts little more sensitive than fish ( just read above so said couple weeks ago so maybe not from aclimitising) but i noticed you said you using gfo reactor as getting phospates in your incoming water so does this mean you using tap water ? If so are you using a declorinator and something to bind tje heavy metals? Im not sure even if you are how long they stay binded so to speak but metals like copper can be in tap water and copper is lethal to inverts,if you using rodi ignore but i just noticed so thought i would ask

 

[ZWesley]

Im new to saltwater but i would be asking how did you aclimintise the urchin as inverts little more sensitive than fish ( just read above so said couple weeks ago so maybe not from aclimitising) but i noticed you said you using gfo reactor as getting phospates in your incoming water so does this mean you using tap water ? If so are you using a declorinator and something to bind tje heavy metals? Im not sure even if you are how long they stay binded so to speak but metals like copper can be in tap water and copper is lethal to inverts,if you using rodi ignore but i just noticed so thought i would ask

I am using RO water forum none of our taps. I dechlorinate with prime and we have well water. As for acclimating, I do not have the ability to drop acclimate so what I did was mix a little bit of my water with the water the inverts came in in a bucket. I left the bucket sit for a while then added some more of my water. I continued this for probably an hour or two which I remembered as the recommended time.

 

[ZWesley]

If you had a microscope you could ID if you had any toxic algae. I couldn't really tell from the photo. But dinos will release a toxin and pull oxygen from the water and it will suffocate/poison the fish and inverts are usually the first to go. If water tests are fine, I would purchase a cheap microscope so you could positively ID what you're working with.

That is my issue, everything in the tank seems to be doing fine. Other than the fact that my hermits don’t like each other, I haven’t lost many inverts. As for fish, I had the one damsel mentioned above however everyone else is doing fine.

 

[ying yang]

I am using RO water forum none of our taps. I dechlorinate with prime and we have well water. As for acclimating, I do not have the ability to drop acclimate so what I did was mix a little bit of my water with the water the inverts came in in a bucket. I left the bucket sit for a while then added some more of my water. I continued this for probably an hour or two which I remembered as the recommended time.

Ok fair enough.

As for you cant drip aclimintise i just get some tubing and tie few knots in it and use clothes peg to clip it to tank and edge of bucket.
My outlook on life is if can use something that costs nothing or next to nothing then do that instead of spending money to get an item to do same thing

 

[T-J]

I never drip acclimate inverts...temp acclimate only, then into the tank they go.

 

[Little c big D]

I never drip either. KH kit is you Alk.I would get quality test kits for PH KH C and MG. Most are ok for nitrates. And I personally would only trust a hanna for Phos. Starting there will help. If your numbers are good and stable, try again when your confident the take is ready

 

[Sleeping Giant]

I am using RO water forum none of our taps. I dechlorinate with prime and we have well water. As for acclimating, I do not have the ability to drop acclimate so what I did was mix a little bit of my water with the water the inverts came in in a bucket. I left the bucket sit for a while then added some more of my water. I continued this for probably an hour or two which I remembered as the recommended time.

Your dechlorinating RO water? Is the RO water from your well?

 

[ZWesley]

Your dechlorinating RO water? Is the RO water from your well?

Yes, it all comes from the same place.