unique plumbing dilemma.....need some community input

ballroomdude · Oct 11, 2015

I'm in the planning phases of building an aquarium bar for my business....and by bar I mean just that.
The tank will bottom will only be 8-10 inches off the ground and the water depth will be 30 inches with another 10 inches or so above that before the bar top.

My dilemma is that I don't know that I'll be able to use gravity to get a good flow rate out of the DT and into the sump. From my understanding if the sump's water height is 24" then that will only leave me 12" - 14" of water table putting pressure on the siphon, and I won't have nearly the flow of having the whole tank above the sump.

The tank will be in the neighborhood of 600 gallons and I was hoping to get a near 4000 gph flow rate into my sump as this will be a FOWLR tank with some big messy fish.

I was thinking about some sort of coast to coast weir feeding a couple of large bulkheads but I still don't know that I'll get enough flow into the sump.

I've also considered running an overflow (for surface skimming) and feeding that to a couple of bulkheads that will feed a reeflo pump off the DT. This pump will push the water into the sump system and I could setup a matching pump for the return. The flow might now exactly match up but I'm betting with a couple of valves in place I could get it pretty close.

I almost feel like I'm into the pond style filtration area with this one.

143MPCo · Oct 11, 2015

I know some LFS use professional grade large canister filters but, I can't find the model or brand... @redfishbluefish might be able to help.

ballroomdude · Oct 11, 2015

Trying to avoid a canister filter

143MPCo · Oct 11, 2015

ballroomdude said:
Trying to avoid a canister filter

understood...
...do you a basement you can run a remote drain to?

kschweer · Oct 11, 2015

That's a tough one for sure. I like your idea of a coast to coast. You could do a coast to coast with an external box this way the water is esentially draining from Higher up than a standard overflow with holes out the bottom of the tank. You could run a bean animal or similar full siphon drain system as they can move more water. I'm guessing there's no basement or space under the tank for filtration?

kschweer · Oct 11, 2015

143MPCo said:
understood...
...do you a basement you can run a remote drain to?

Great minds think alike haha

DrayB · Oct 11, 2015

I've seen on ...."a well known TV program" where they had a similar situation. i think the made the top of the one side of the tank a weir that flowed into the sump. you could then run the return pipework in the space under the DT to enter back on the other side. I have also seen a restaurant in soho that has a tank top bar... yauatcha dot com

not as deep as what you are thinking...but gives you the space under for a sump system??

143MPCo · Oct 11, 2015

Linear drain to attached sump will work but you need the footage to do it this way.

ballroomdude · Oct 11, 2015

^^^ that would do it. I have an idea and will get some pics up for you guys to think over. Thanks.

ballroomdude · Oct 11, 2015

ok.....a few pics of the idea so far. I'm not the greatest with sketch up as a software but you get the idea. Footage I have, @143MPCo . I was going to run a long return line to an oceans motion manifold anyway. perhaps a coast 2 coast style weir feeding the 2 pipes as overflows and they can dump into a sump running along the drywall in the pic? my concern is still getting enough flow to the sump.

call me a noob but please describe or point me in the direction of an article describing a "liner drain"

ballroomdude · Oct 11, 2015

also found this handy calculator in the beananimal site. I'm thinking if the water surface is around 38 inches off the ground and my bulkheads leading to the (after the overflow) are 34 inches off the ground I can run piping thru the wall and to a sump on the floor at only 24" of height. this should still give me loads of flow with 2x 2" pipes.......leading to the sump. Maybe this doesn't have to be as complicated as I originally planned. I like it when that happens

143MPCo · Oct 12, 2015

ballroomdude said:
ok.....a few pics of the idea so far. I'm not the greatest with sketch up as a software but you get the idea. Footage I have, @143MPCo . I was going to run a long return line to an oceans motion manifold anyway. perhaps a coast 2 coast style weir feeding the 2 pipes as overflows and they can dump into a sump running along the drywall in the pic? my concern is still getting enough flow to the sump.

call me a noob but please describe or point me in the direction of an article describing a "linear drain"

The overall plans looks fine, I don't think you'll have many issues... the coast 2 coast style weir feeding the 3 not 2 pipes at 2" or 2"-1/2" will allow for fast drainage and redundancy, I would add Spears Gate Valve/s to allow for complete flow control... as this is a horizontal drop, recommend using PVC LASCO | 2" STREET 45^ ELL | 423-020 and not pvc elbows, that will reduce any back pressure (if any on such a short run) to the sump, also you will want to 45 end cut the drains about 1" below the water line in the sump drainage chamber, again reducing back pressure.

one issue you will have is condensation build underneath the glass/acrylic from normal water evaporation on the top... adding fans to the cabinetry will help in a number of ways. one, they will move the humidity out along with CO2 aiding in keeping PH level ups, drawback being the amount of top-off will also increase.

you can also fly me out as an onsite consultant

ballroomdude · Oct 12, 2015

I'll definitely add the gate valves and maybe an inline flow meter on both ends so that I can monitor actual flow in the lines from and to the DT. I'll also cut at 45* angles like you said. Hadn't heard of that before.

as for humidity...

The access holes in the top underneath the bar top will have acrylic covers to help quell buildup. I also plan on running a couple good sized fans and have them blowing almost right into a dehumidifier for the room.

I also thought about using a dryer vent off of a fan and routing the vent thru the floor into my crawl space so that any moisture will end up with some of the rain water underneath my building and be emptied out with a sump pump.

I like the idea of fast drainage with this tank as I'd like to see around 4000 gph at least going to the sump...these are gonna be well fed, fat, messy fish.

I'll detail my filtration and overall waterflow plans in another thread as I want to keep this one to plumbing this monster to the sump. Keeps me organized when I go back and re read things later on.