Unknown Gill Irritation

Panzer2C · Dec 1, 2015

I am having a problem in my 125 gal fish only aquarium. The symptoms are rapid gill beating rate, fish trying to scratch something off the sides of their heads by rapidly brushing against rocks and loss of appetite. Also the symptoms seem to be exaggerated when the aquarium lights are on. I, of course, suspect some kind of parasite in the gills of the fish, but unlike any parasite problem I have ever seen there are no visible parasites anywhere on the fish. When I first noticed the symptoms I expected to see white specs appearing on the fish soon but they never did.

I have done two rounds of copper treatment with all the filtration (carbon & ferrous oxide reactors and protein skimmer) off and using COPPER POWER by Enrich, Inc. I then ran all the filtration systems and did a large water change. The symptoms returned. I then treated the aquarium with PRAZIPRO (again with all the filtration off) where I dosed per the instructions and dosed again in 3 days and again in 3 days. And the symptoms are still there. And my protein skimmer went wild for a week trying to get the PRAZIPRO out of the water.

I even left the lights off with no medicine treatment for a few weeks since the symptoms seem worse with them on, but to no avail.

I really could use some advice on how to proceed to cure my fish. Not all the fish seem to be affected. The Power Brown, Blue, Scopus and Naso Tang are having a problem, the Lemonpeel, Singapore and Passer Angels are too, but the Picasso Trigger and Percula Clown seem to be unaffected. This doesn't seem to be life-threatening since it has been going on for months and the fish do eat at times but I hate to see the fish in such discomfort. Please help if you can.

melypr1985 · Dec 1, 2015

It could be ich but your problem is that your treating in your dt. Your live rock is absorbing said copper making it less than therapeutic levels should be. It will also leach back out of your live rock later to kill any inverts you have- assuming they aren't already all dead. You really need to take them out and treat in a hospital tank. I say ich because the prazipro should have worked if it was flukes. Though a freshwater dip on the worst effected would be a helpful way to rule that out. Also, copper should be ran for 30 consecutive days to rid the fish of ich.

melypr1985 · Dec 1, 2015

CP is also a great way to rid them of ich and other illnesses if you can get ahold of it. Here's how to treat with CP and Copper:

Chloroquine phosphate: Treats Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans), Marine Velvet disease (Amyloodinium), Brooklynella hostilis & Uronema marinum.

How To Treat - Chloroquine phosphate (CP) is a “new drug” that actually was widely used to control external protozoa in saltwater aquariums back in the 70s & 80s. It was even used in some aquarium medications sold at LFS. At some point the FDA decided to make it a controlled substance and that was the end of that. Fast forward to today and thanks to the power of the Internet, CP has come roaring back! The biggest obstacle to overcome is obtaining pharmaceutical grade 99% pure CP. I cannot stress the importance of this enough. Do not buy it from some guy on eBay or even an online vendor. The only way to be sure you are getting 99% pure CP is to get your vet to write you a prescription that can then be filled at a local pharmacy.

CP is a “one and done” medication, meaning you dose once and that’s it. There are no test kits for CP, so it’s important that you dose accurately using a digital scale. Also, don’t forget to dose any replacement water (from water changes, but not top off) with CP. The dosage rates are as follows:

Prophylactic treatment is 40 mg per gallon.
Active infections (visible symptoms present) is 60mg/gal.
For Uronema marinum and really bad infestations, you can dose up to 80mg/gal.

As you can see, there is quite a bit of wiggle room between the minimum & maximum dosage. Practically speaking, 40mg/gal will treat all external protozoa issues… it’s just that the higher dosages may get the job done a little faster. Treatment lasts 30 consecutive days, and no carbon, UV, etc. may be used during this time (although it can be used later when you wish to remove the medication from the water). A little quirk about CP is that it is light sensitive, so you cannot use a light on the aquarium while treating. However, this does not mean your fish have to remain in total darkness; ambient lighting (say, from a window across the room) is fine. CP is NOT reef safe. In addition to killing your corals, it is a very strong algaecide.

Pros - Gentle on most fish (DO NOT USE with wrasses), a “one and done” medication that treats most external protozoa. CP is the closest thing there is to a “wonder drug” in our hobby.

Cons/Side Effects - Expensive, hard to get (requires a prescription), light sensitive; some evidence of appetite suppression with certain species (especially wrasses.) Attempts to feed CP laced food are usually not successful due to its bad metallic taste.

Copper: Treats Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans), Marine Velvet disease (Amyloodinium); possibly Uronema marinum

How To Treat - First, it is important to know what kind of copper you are using. Cupramine is fully charged (ionic) copper, and has a therapeutic range of 0.35-0.5 mg/L or ppm. You would use a Seachem or Salifert copper test kit for Cupramine, as those are capable of reading copper in the low range. Coppersafe, on the other hand, is chelated copper. It has a much higher therapeutic range of 1.5-2.0 mg/L or ppm. As such, you need a “total copper test kit” such as API’s to measure Coppersafe.

Standard copper treatment lasts 30 consecutive days. The reason it takes so long is copper only targets the “free swimming stage” (the same holds true for all chemical treatments & hypo). While 7-14 days is the “norm” to reach this stage, certain strains of ich have prolonged life cycles. Indeed, even 30 days may not be long enough in some rare cases. This is why it is so important to observe after treatment ends, to ensure symptoms do not return.

Therapeutic copper levels must be maintained at all times during the 30 days, so testing often is important. If the level drops even slightly out of range, then the 30 day clock starts all over again. One reason your copper level may drop unexpectedly is if you are treating in a tank with rock and substrate; those should not be used in the presence of copper due to absorption. Conversely, if you exceed the therapeutic range you risk killing the fish.

Copper is a poison, pure and simple. It only works because most fish are able to withstand being in it longer than the parasites. Knowing this, it is wise to raise your copper level very slowly (over 3-5 days) instead of the usual 24-48 hours recommended on the labels. Doing so increases your odds of successfully treating a “copper sensitive” fish. Remove copper after 30 days by running activated carbon.

Pros - Readily available

Cons/Side Effects - Appetite suppression is a common side effect. If a fish stops eating, don’t add more copper until he resumes. If the fish is still not eating after 2-3 days, start doing water changes (lowering the copper concentration) until he eats. If this happens a second time after you resume raising the copper, you’ll know you’ve encountered a “copper sensitive” fish and an alternative treatment should be used instead. Some species of fish, such as angels, puffers, lions and mandarins are notoriously difficult to treat with copper.

Humblefish · Dec 1, 2015

As Meredith said, if you are using copper in a DT with rocks/substrate then it is very difficult to maintain a therapeutic level due to copper absorption. Also, Copper Power has a higher therapeutic level than most other brands of copper (2.5 ppm), and you must use an API copper test kit to measure it. Did you test the Cu level while treating?

Panzer2C · Dec 2, 2015

No, I did not test the Copper level. I do not have a test kit. Which is the most reliable one to use?

melypr1985 · Dec 2, 2015

Panzer2C said:
No, I did not test the Copper level. I do not have a test kit. Which is the most reliable one to use?

With copper power you need the API test kit for it. It's very important to test regularly to be sure the levels are in the correct therapeutic range.

Humblefish · Dec 3, 2015

melypr1985 said:
With copper power you need the API test kit for it. It's very important to test regularly to be sure the levels are in the correct therapeutic range.

+1 Target therapeutic level for Copper Power is 2.5 ppm. I think you will find it difficult to maintain a stable level with rock/substrate present.