Scientists played vibrant sounds of healthy coral to attract young fish - a practice that could be used to revive coral reefs globally
www.cbsnews.com
Now I’m aware they are using the sounds of a natural thriving reef. However this does add to the conversation, on if our aquariums and equipment are to noisy for the animals we care for.
I'm not going to pretend to read the article right now. But I just want to throw out there the fact that fish don't have ears or hear. Maybe you mean noisy in a different way, and maybe they mean it in a different way. But, misrepresenting information isn't a good way to get people to read articles.
Edit: I'm not blaming you for this. It's just annoying when articles start applying traits like "hearing" to animals that don't even have ears.
Nope, still not going to read it. Sounds is a human interpretation of a pressure wave. This is something that requires an ear and brain designed to interpret it as sound.
While fish do indeed sense pressure waves, as they have a specially developed lateral line, there is no reason to conflate this as hearing.
Well then let’s say, the heading “noisy” means excessive pressure waves generated by aquarium equipment....
“Noise” comes in several forms...
Post was just meant as a response and continued conversation to a similar thread regarding how “noisy equipment” May effect animals in aquariums”.
Nope, still not going to read it. Sounds is a human interpretation of a pressure wave. This is something that requires an ear and brain designed to interpret it as sound.
While fish do indeed sense pressure waves, as they have a specially developed lateral line, there is no reason to conflate this as hearing.
While they don't have ears like mammals, they do have sensory organs that allow them to hear. Below is the excerpt from Wikipedia:
Hearing is an important sensory system for most species of fish. Hearing threshold and the ability to localize sound sources are reduced underwater, in which the speed of sound is faster than in air. Underwater hearing is by bone conduction, and localization of sound appears to depend on differences in amplitude detected by bone conduction.[7] As such, aquatic animals such as fish have a more specialized hearing apparatus that is effective underwater.[8]
Fish can sense sound through their lateral lines and their otoliths (ears). Some fishes, such as some species of carp and herring, hear through their swim bladders, which function rather like a hearing aid.[9]
Hearing is well-developed in carp, which have the Weberian organ, three specialized vertebral processes that transfer vibrations in the swim bladder to the inner ear.
Although it is hard to test sharks' hearing, they may have a sharp sense of hearing and can possibly hear prey many miles away.[10] A small opening on each side of their heads (not the spiracle) leads directly into the inner ear through a thin channel. The lateral line shows a similar arrangement, and is open to the environment via a series of openings called lateral line pores. This is a reminder of the common origin of these two vibration- and sound-detecting organs that are grouped together as the acoustico-lateralis system. In bony fish and tetrapods the external opening into the inner ear has been lost.
I might also add that in the Blue Planet 2 documentary they have an entire discussion about reef sounds and how they impact the fish population. It is in the reefs episode and in a behind-the-scenes portion the guy that was studying reef sounds discusses how the clowns around the anemone react to the loud sounds, in some cases becoming disoriented.
Well then let’s say, the heading “noisy” means excessive pressure waves generated by aquarium equipment....
“Noise” comes in several forms...
Post was just meant as a response and continued conversation to a similar thread regarding how “noisy equipment” May effect animals in aquariums”.
I'm not sure how this adds to that discussion. All one can glean from this article is that dead reefs are silent and do not attract fish. If there is noise the fish are attracted. It didn't really go into what sort of sound waves they use. From this article one cannot determine if certain sounds are better or worse.
Hmm... very interesting!
The article just made me wonder if “noise” good or bad, soft or loud was bad in aquariums. I remembered a previous thread. So I shared it. Just some food for thought.
Being what erk posted.... its definitely worth at least further discussion.
Some pumps and equipment can be loud.
I agree that the equipment in our tank can be loud. I have two Tunze 6055s that pulse and I can hear them thump against the glass. But I imagine the fish get used to this constant sound. Kind of like the difference between living in the city, the suburbs, or out in the country.
What would be more distressing is the high volume random/inconsistent noise. Kind of like a boat engine or in our case a lawnmower. You would go crazy if you had to listen to a lawnmower outside your house 24/7. But the occasional car driving by isn't that big of a deal.
While they don't have ears like mammals, they do have sensory organs that allow them to hear. Below is the excerpt from Wikipedia:
Hearing is an important sensory system for most species of fish. Hearing threshold and the ability to localize sound sources are reduced underwater, in which the speed of sound is faster than in air. Underwater hearing is by bone conduction, and localization of sound appears to depend on differences in amplitude detected by bone conduction.[7] As such, aquatic animals such as fish have a more specialized hearing apparatus that is effective underwater.[8]
Fish can sense sound through their lateral lines and their otoliths (ears). Some fishes, such as some species of carp and herring, hear through their swim bladders, which function rather like a hearing aid.[9]
Hearing is well-developed in carp, which have the Weberian organ, three specialized vertebral processes that transfer vibrations in the swim bladder to the inner ear.
Although it is hard to test sharks' hearing, they may have a sharp sense of hearing and can possibly hear prey many miles away.[10] A small opening on each side of their heads (not the spiracle) leads directly into the inner ear through a thin channel. The lateral line shows a similar arrangement, and is open to the environment via a series of openings called lateral line pores. This is a reminder of the common origin of these two vibration- and sound-detecting organs that are grouped together as the acoustico-lateralis system. In bony fish and tetrapods the external opening into the inner ear has been lost.
Thank you for taking the time to respond. There's always room to expand knowledge, however I'm not at all ignorant on the topic. I've studied this with a fair amount of depth, and while the lateral line functions mechanistically just like the ear it still cannot be called hearing. Between us this may just be an argument on the semantics of hearing, but my point was that the article is wrong calling it hearing.
It would be very similar to calling balance hearing. Balance and hearing are controlled by very similar structures, however they're wired differently in the brain. The lateral line is an offshoot of this. It's a similar, yet different structure than the cochlea and it's wired to the brain of fish differently than our sense of hearing is. It's neurologically different.
I'm not arguing that the lateral line doesn't exist, nor am I arguing that fish cannot use it to gather information about their surrounding environment.
I get it. I made an assumption about an article, so youre making assumptions about me. Fair enough. This isn't a topic that I am mis or under informed in though.
Concerning the article. Parsimony is key. There's a lot of interpretation going on there. What I take from the study is that fish are highly dependant on their lateral line for determining a suitable environment and can gather fairly detailed information on their environment with the lateral line.
What I'm not buying is that there is any difference in the sound of live reefs, VS artificial reefs. It's interesting to see that we can trick fish into thinking they're in a safe environment by mimicking the sounds of a coral reef, but this sounds like misdirection of resources. Why are they tricking the fish? Great, the fish know when they're safe, they avoid wide open spaces where there is silence and they like environments with lots of cracks, crevices and randomly protruding objects that create lots of reverberating sounds.
In reference to the original discussion. Maybe, this is good news for us because like a coral reef our tanks are noisy places. Our tanks create more rhythmic, repetitive sounds than the randomness of a live reef, so it probably cannot translate, but I don't see why it's something we can't test if we really wanted to.
Thank you for taking the time to respond. There's always room to expand knowledge, however I'm not at all ignorant on the topic. I've studied this with a fair amount of depth, and while the lateral line functions mechanistically just like the ear it still cannot be called hearing. Between us this may just be an argument on the semantics of hearing, but my point was that the article is wrong calling it hearing.
It would be very similar to calling balance hearing. Balance and hearing are controlled by very similar structures, however they're wired differently in the brain. The lateral line is an offshoot of this. It's a similar, yet different structure than the cochlea and it's wired to the brain of fish differently than our sense of hearing is. It's neurologically different.
I'm not arguing that the lateral line doesn't exist, nor am I arguing that fish cannot use it to gather information about their surrounding environment.
I get it. I made an assumption about an article, so youre making assumptions about me. Fair enough. This isn't a topic that I am mis or under informed in though.
Concerning the article. Parsimony is key. There's a lot of interpretation going on there. What I take from the study is that fish are highly dependant on their lateral line for determining a suitable environment and can gather fairly detailed information on their environment with the lateral line.
What I'm not buying is that there is any difference in the sound of live reefs, VS artificial reefs. It's interesting to see that we can trick fish into thinking they're in a safe environment by mimicking the sounds of a coral reef, but this sounds like misdirection of resources. Why are they tricking the fish? Great, the fish know when they're safe, they avoid wide open spaces where there is silence and they like environments with lots of cracks, crevices and randomly protruding objects that create lots of reverberating sounds.
In reference to the original discussion. Maybe, this is good news for us because like a coral reef our tanks are noisy places. Our tanks create more rhythmic, repetitive sounds than the randomness of a live reef, so it probably cannot translate, but I don't see why it's something we can't test if we really wanted to.
The lateral line is only one method of "hearing" in fish. So yes, you are misinformed. Fish also have otoliths, calcium carbonate structure in the saccule or utricle of the inner ear(per the Wikipedia article I linked that you did not read). And apparently some fish, carp and herring, hear via their swim bladder.
Scientists played vibrant sounds of healthy coral to attract young fish - a practice that could be used to revive coral reefs globally
www.cbsnews.com
Now I’m aware they are using the sounds of a natural thriving reef. However this does add to the conversation, on if our aquariums and equipment are to noisy for the animals we care for.
I'm not going to pretend to read the article right now. But I just want to throw out there the fact that fish don't have ears or hear. Maybe you mean noisy in a different way, and maybe they mean it in a different way. But, misrepresenting information isn't a good way to get people to read articles.
Edit: I'm not blaming you for this. It's just annoying when articles start applying traits like "hearing" to animals that don't even have ears.
www.cbsnews.com
en.wikipedia.org
