up and down and up and down...Swim bladder?

pseudorand · Dec 21, 2020

I just got a swallowtail angle that seems to be swimming up and down and up and down all the time after jumping out of the tank and hitting concrete.

I know what you're think -- swallowtails come from deep water, they didn't bring her up slowly and she has air in her swim bladder. But:

She seemed fine in the store.
She had been at the store for at least a week. (I suspect a few months actually, as I requested one, it didn't come in and then I missed the voicemail where they said they got one the following week).
She seemed fine during acclimation. But then I stupidly scared her and she jumped from the bucket, landing on concrete.
She seems to be swimming level, just jerky and up-n-down a bit. Other pics/videos I've see have fish with supposed swim bladder issues that are on their sides or nose down all the time.

She's eating OK and other than the jerky swimming behavior, seems fine. She's been in the tank for a day.

What's wrong with her and how do I fix it?

And please don't post the link to the swim bladder operation. I'm sure I'll screw that up and kill her.

xxkenny90xx · Dec 21, 2020

I'm not sure about your angel but some fish can be burped to get the air out by holding it with its mouth pointed up and massaging its belly. That being said I don't know if this is actually a trapped air issue, your fish seemed fine in the video...

Jay Hemdal · Dec 21, 2020

pseudorand said:
I just got a swallowtail angle that seems to be swimming up and down and up and down all the time after jumping out of the tank and hitting concrete.

I know what you're think -- swallowtails come from deep water, they didn't bring her up slowly and she has air in her swim bladder. But:

She seemed fine in the store.

She had been at the store for at least a week. (I suspect a few months actually, as I requested one, it didn't come in and then I missed the voicemail where they said they got one the following week).

She seemed fine during acclimation. But then I stupidly scared her and she jumped from the bucket, landing on concrete.

She seems to be swimming level, just jerky and up-n-down a bit. Other pics/videos I've see have fish with supposed swim bladder issues that are on their sides or nose down all the time.

She's eating OK and other than the jerky swimming behavior, seems fine. She's been in the tank for a day.

What's wrong with her and how do I fix it?

And please don't post the link to the swim bladder operation. I'm sure I'll screw that up and kill her.

I don't see anything wrong with it - just a hyper little Genicanthus angel.

Jay

pseudorand · Dec 22, 2020

I saw bubbles coming out of the fish multiple times today. They were about the size of her eyes and a dozen or so at a time. I think it was the back end, but it's hard to tell. That supports my hypothesis that she somehow has gas and is "hyper" because she's constantly having to swim downward.

I turned off the air stone because I did see her attack those bubble like they were food.

I've seen my clowns fart a few times, but it's rare, and they don't swim funny. And they always say "excuse me".

Very strange, but she's eating well, so I won't worry I until she stops eating or starts floating (at the top, that is, I think she's already floating but swimming down to correct).

Jay Hemdal · Dec 22, 2020

A

pseudorand said:
I saw bubbles coming out of the fish multiple times today. They were about the size of her eyes and a dozen or so at a time. I think it was the back end, but it's hard to tell. That supports my hypothesis that she somehow has gas and is "hyper" because she's constantly having to swim downward.

I turned off the air stone because I did see her attack those bubble like they were food.

I've seen my clowns fart a few times, but it's rare, and they don't swim funny. And they always say "excuse me".

Very strange, but she's eating well, so I won't worry I until she stops eating or starts floating (at the top, that is, I think she's already floating but swimming down to correct).

Actually, Genicanthus are known for this. Be sure not to let it feed at the surface, that’s how my watenabei would catch air. Also don’t feed freeze dried food or flakes.

Jay

pseudorand · Dec 22, 2020

Jay Hemdal said:
A

Actually, Genicanthus are known for this. Be sure not to let it feed at the surface, that’s how my watenabei would catch air. Also don’t feed freeze dried food or flakes.

Jay

Good to know. I read another post about that, but it seemed a bit far-fetched. I believe Mr. Hemdal though.

Will it self-resolve?

I also have been feeding some flake for variety, but she has never gone to the surface for it. Am I correct that it only matters if she comes up? (I.e. if I mix it with water and does it deep with a turkey baster, is that fine?)

Qasimja · Dec 22, 2020

ive had a swallowtail for a year now and she has bubbles come out of her gills all the time or maybe its her mouth i thought maybe it was because she jumped out of the tank and hit the floor pretty hard but i guess they all do it i have mesh covers now

Jay Hemdal · Dec 22, 2020

pseudorand said:
Will it self-resolve?

I also have been feeding some flake for variety, but she has never gone to the surface for it. Am I correct that it only matters if she comes up? (I.e. if I mix it with water and does it deep with a turkey baster, is that fine?)

If it isn’t swallowing air from the surface, then I think my conclusion isn’t correct. I just don’t know where else the gas could be coming from. Flake food has some air in it and small fish will bounce after eating it, but that soon passes (pardon the pun) Some bacteria produce gas, but I can’t imagine they could produce so much that you would see bubbles.
Jay

pseudorand · Mar 27, 2021

So this fish has been in display for months now and is doing well. She no longer takes any crap from my royal gramma, and holds her own during feeding time.

But she's still swallows air and it's especially bad today. I have seen her getting it from the surface. In fact, she goes up to try to eat the bubbles that just came out of her thinking their food I guess. I feed only frozen that goes below the surface, so I have no idea what she's trying to get at the surface to swallow air in the first place. She does seem to struggle to stay down when swimming from time to time but other than that healthy so I'm hoping for the best.

Jay Hemdal · Mar 28, 2021

That is strange that it s such a severe case, not sure what you can do though.
Jay

pseudorand · Mar 28, 2021

Jay Hemdal said:
That is strange that it s such a severe case, not sure what you can do though.
Jay

I don't think it's the swim bladder issue caused by taking them from the deep too quickly. It seems to come and go. I think she just swallows bubbles repeatedly. Perhaps she'll learn in time.

vetteguy53081 · Mar 28, 2021

To some fish as in my tank, they go after bubbles thinking its food. Try planting nori seaweed in the event its' food that it wants.
The fish seems to be hyperactive and full of spunk other than the unusual behavior with bubble. I personally would try directing a little flow towards the surface to break up or move the bubbles and allow the angel to find something else to do.

Jay Hemdal · Mar 28, 2021

pseudorand said:
I don't think it's the swim bladder issue caused by taking them from the deep too quickly. It seems to come and go. I think she just swallows bubbles repeatedly. Perhaps she'll learn in time.

I agree, it is swallowing air like I've seen before myself, just not this bad. Genicanthus angels do not have any sense to what the air/water interface is since they are not naturally found that shallow. Anything unusual about your water's surface, is it very calm for example?

Jay

pseudorand · Mar 28, 2021

It is very calm. I have a sump with plenty of movement for gas exchange, so I don't have powerheads hitting the surface. I guess your advice is to point them that way and the movement will clue her in, right?