Update on ammonia poisoning

DebL · Dec 20, 2016

I posted originally in the fish diseases board, but now that we are in the midst of trying to save our marine animals, I'm hoping that someone here can advise....

We are the newbies that took incorrect information from a lfs that we could add fish before our tank had fully cycled - we've lost 5 so far. Over-population and over-feeding has probably contributed to the off-the-charts ammonia. We have no intent in replacing the five anytime soon. Unfortunately we lost the Tang this morning and a green chromi last night.

Last night we did a water change of approximately 20% and treated with Bio-shira to try to jump start the cycle. We also used Ammo-lock yesterday in an effort to try and save the livestock. This morning's numbers are:

PH 8.4
Ammonia 1.o ppm
Nitrite 0.5 ppm
Nitrate 5.0 ppm
Water temp 78.5

We've treated with Ammo-lock again today, and we added Marine Elements T and a water clarifier.

The remaining fish look good - active and no visible stress. We have a few emerald crabs, hermit crabs, snails and peppermint shrimp coming today. Our hope is that they will clean up and keep the bottom clear and reduce the ammonia.

Anyone have a suggestion of how we should continue? Should we do water changes every other day?

Thank you everyone for your help yesterday - it was invaluable!

Chrisfish · Dec 20, 2016

Any ammonia in a marine tank is not good, if there is anyway you can re home the remaining fish that would be the best, IMO.
#reefsquad

MaiReef · Dec 20, 2016

I recommend putting in a bag of Purigen
http://www.seachem.com/purigen.php
Do you have anyone with a QT to hold the invertebrates? They will not do well in an already overloaded tank with those numbers and just contribute to the Ammonia if they do live.

melypr1985 · Dec 20, 2016

Chrisfish said:
Any ammonia in a marine tank is not good, if there is anyway you can re home the remaining fish that would be the best, IMO.
#reefsquad

^^^ This, at least until you can fully cycle the tank. Maybe a friend or the LFS can take them until the tank is ready. It will be easier in the long run to just do it this way.

aaron23 · Dec 20, 2016

I dont think you should be adding more to a tank that isn't fully cycled, that is adding more to the problem. Feed less and keep the sandbed clean and like the above post i'd rehouse the fish until the ammonia is properly in check

DebL · Dec 20, 2016

I saw the puri-gen at Petco - we will get a bag and try it. I'm not sure who in our area would take the fish. Ron is going to check on that today. If I thought it would help I'd get a QT but wouldn't that just be harder on the fish at this point?

cmcoker · Dec 20, 2016

Clean up crew will add to the ammonia, not help.
You need to do more water changes to keep ammonia at zero until you can rehome or return to the lfs the livestock you currently have. Then let the tank cycle.

DebL · Dec 20, 2016

MaiReef said:
I recommend putting in a bag of Purigen
http://www.seachem.com/purigen.php
Do you have anyone with a QT to hold the invertebrates? They will not do well in an already overloaded tank with those numbers and just contribute to the Ammonia if they do live.

Good morning! I don't think we're overpopulated with the reduction of 5. We really thought the "reef cleaning crew" would be beneficial - ugh.....

Joey waid · Dec 20, 2016

Please do water changes and lots of them. You can do it and your fish will live. Buying chemicals and absorbing stuff still is not getting rid of the main problem. In time you tank will take over and the water changes will decrease.

melypr1985 · Dec 20, 2016

DebL said:
Good morning! I don't think we're overpopulated with the reduction of 5. We really thought the "reef cleaning crew" would be beneficial - ugh.....

At this point, you shouldnt add anything at all to the tank until it's cycle is established. The best thing you can do is remove living creatures so they arn't further harmed by the ammonia present.

Joey waid · Dec 20, 2016

melypr1985 said:
At this point, you shouldnt add anything at all to the tank until it's cycle is established. The best thing you can do is remove living creatures so they arn't further harmed by the ammonia present.

Agreed, but we have already mentioned that to her in her other thread about letting a fish store hold them. She does not think she has that option. To me her only option is water changes. She bought the fish off line.

tankstudy · Dec 20, 2016

You will need to do 50-100% water changes once a day if you do not plan to temporarily rehome the fish or invertebrates. All your living creatures produce ammonia daily. The smaller the container, the higher the percentage the water change.

I would recommend adding 1 more bottle of BIO-SPIRA to your main tank. Do not dose or add anything at this time other than that bottle of BIO-SPIRA. Only saltwater, pumps, rocks and gravel are the only things that need to be running or in the tank. The extra BIO-SPIRA will decrease your cycling time phenomenally.

Once your ammonia and nitrite hit 0 ppm, let us know and we can direct you on what to do next. For now, just add another BIO-SPIRA and test daily.

DebL · Dec 20, 2016

Joey waid said:
Agreed, but we have already mentioned that to her in her other thread about letting a fish store hold them. She does not think she has that option. To me her only option is water changes. She bought the fish off line.

As Joey mentioned, we do not have a local shop and all of our fish and inverts were purchased from an online dealer. We found a couple of shops in a little more than a hours drive, but we don't have a relationship with them and I would feel uncomfortable asking. We will do all that we can do here and hope for the best. I thank you all for the suggestions, and obviously the popular consensus is to rehome the fish until the tank cycles. Since that is not an option, I'm soliciting for your second best alternative and support. Thank you to all!

Bunnee911 · Dec 20, 2016

Second option is to start a QT tank and use Bio Spira in it. Less quantity of water means less water to have to change. You absolutely don't want ammonia in your tank with livestock.

I love the Seachem Ammonia Badge. Just use a flashlight to read it.

I believe 30% is the least amount of water change that will affect ammonia or nitrite. Someone?

melypr1985 · Dec 20, 2016

DebL said:
As Joey mentioned, we do not have a local shop and all of our fish and inverts were purchased from an online dealer. We found a couple of shops in a little more than a hours drive, but we don't have a relationship with them and I would feel uncomfortable asking. We will do all that we can do here and hope for the best. I thank you all for the suggestions, and obviously the popular consensus is to rehome the fish until the tank cycles. Since that is not an option, I'm soliciting for your second best alternative and support. Thank you to all!

Ahh. I'm sorry, you'll have to forgive me for not remembering all that from the other thread. There are just so many to keep up with! lol In that case, water changes are your best friend. You may have to do them daily until the tank cycles. I hope you are able to get the tank cycled soon.

Brew12 · Dec 20, 2016

Bunnee911 said:
Second option is to start a QT tank and use Bio Spira in it. Less quantity of water means less water to have to change. You absolutely don't want ammonia in your tank with livestock.

I love the Seachem Ammonia Badge. Just use a flashlight to read it.

I believe 30% is the least amount of water change that will affect ammonia or nitrite. Someone?

Any water change will help. A 30% water change will remove 30% of the ammonia. Nitrite isn't an issue.

At least you are seeing a positive change. If I recall, ammonia was 1.5ppm yesterday so you are trending in the correct direction. The Biospira should really speed that process up.

DebL · Dec 21, 2016

Two and a half days in after beginning the tank rescue - all numbers have improved. We did lose the tang - we wonder if it was ammonia poisoning or if it suffered trauma when we introduced her to the tank - she was very hyper and managed to wrap herself around the intake on the filter and was stuck there for a few seconds before she wriggled off. We've since lost a flame angel who got stuck under a coral piece, and we have two yellow tail damsels in a netted breeder tank that are very weak - but they have been bullied and are pretty beat up. I've read that they are only supposed to be two to a tank, and for whatever reason the shop we bought from online only sells them in a group of five. One of them killed one of our green chromi's a few days ago - they are quite aggressive.

We've been doing daily water changes of about 20-25% water changes and adding Bio-sphira each time. We used the pre-prepared sea water this evening rather than dechlorinating and mixing salt ourselves. We also invested in a protein skimmer. The numbers this evening:
pH 8.1
Ammonia 0.25
Nitrate 5.0
Nitrite 3.0

Stll not perfect, but definitely headed in the right direction.

Brew12 · Dec 21, 2016

DebL said:
Two and a half days in after beginning the tank rescue - all numbers have improved. We did lose the tang - we wonder if it was ammonia poisoning or if it suffered trauma when we introduced her to the tank - she was very hyper and managed to wrap herself around the intake on the filter and was stuck there for a few seconds before she wriggled off. We've since lost a flame angel who got stuck under a coral piece, and we have two yellow tail damsels in a netted breeder tank that are very weak - but they have been bullied and are pretty beat up. I've read that they are only supposed to be two to a tank, and for whatever reason the shop we bought from online only sells them in a group of five. One of them killed one of our green chromi's a few days ago - they are quite aggressive.

We've been doing daily water changes of about 20-25% water changes and adding Bio-sphira each time. We used the pre-prepared sea water this evening rather than dechlorinating and mixing salt ourselves. We also invested in a protein skimmer. The numbers this evening:
pH 8.1
Ammonia 0.25
Nitrate 5.0
Nitrite 3.0

Stll not perfect, but definitely headed in the right direction.

I know all the problems you are having are frustrating but you are making progress!

There is no reason to add Biospira with each water change. Dump the whole bottle in right after your next water change and be done with it. The bacteria cling to the rock and sand so you won't lose many with the water changes.