Updated cycling science trends in 2023

[brandon429]

bacteria

Good Morning, Reefer community my tank is now two running and cycling and have notice a green color grow on the sand and rock scape was told it was some time of Bacteria

www.reef2reef.com

an example of visual benthic cycle umpiring. tracing out the proof currently

and another

New Tank Cycle - Odd Results

Hey folks! I'm going through my first cycle in my 250L tank and I decided to use the Red Sea Mature Pro to get things going, but actually this seems to have over-complicated things and now I'm a bit lost.. I had been dosing according to the instruction manual and on day 10 the expected...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[BeanAnimal]

"visual benthic cycle umpiring"

 

[brandon429]

can you show me a link anywhere in reefing that allows one to predict a cycle's status off a written brief paragraph by a web poster, and then have all the stated timing confirmed after the fact without one shred of doubt the entire time

because if so, I'll refer to that article's definition

I have been using the details from updated cycling science for several more months now, thought it would be fun to start linking a few examples again. old cycling science is having a strong resurgence, false cycle stalls are really taking off we're heading back in time vs forward

 

[brandon429]

here's an example of the reverse, old cycling science:

does this reef appear to be in ammonia distress, could it be?
absolutely nothing changed in the tank. Its been running a while, stocked, yet a non digital test kit says the cycle is broken one day and if you saw the thread, the umpires agree.

absolutely no other confirmation was sought nor required, the non digital ammonia test kit said there was concerning ammonia, and the umpires simply agreed. that's old cycling science. there are several markers in that tank we can use visually to prove there's no ammonia distress at all, but we have to use a different rule set than the old ways of discerning cycle status.

*In contrast
per the visual benthic clue details here below, I 100% believe this tank isn't currently controlling it's ammonia.

TBS Live Rock - Very high ammonia, no nitrite, barely any nitrate

Hello, I'm starting a red sea nano tank. I put 20 lbs of TBS Live Rock into it and a few lbs of dead Marco rocks (mainly base rocks for a foundation). The rocks have been in for nearly 4 days now. Ammonia spiked pretty drastically. I'm using the Red Sea test kit, so Ammonia readings only go up...

www.reef2reef.com

first one I've seen that's believable all year long. in my opinion this is two more times of using visual cues in pics or video to determine a cycle's status, without testing required. one is a for-sure no ammonia issue, the other is an expected ammonia issue.

 

[BeanAnimal]

can you show me a link anywhere in reefing that allows one to predict a cycle's status off a written brief paragraph by a web poster, and then have all the stated timing confirmed after the fact without one shred of doubt the entire time

because if so, I'll refer to that article's definition

I have been using the details from updated cycling science for several more months now, thought it would be fun to start linking a few examples again. old cycling science is having a strong resurgence, false cycle stalls are really taking off we're heading back in time vs forward

Honestly Brandon - you lost me ages ago with the extremely lengthy pseudo-scientific posts and your uncanny ability to turn even the simplest conversation into a "cycling science" opus.

I too, long ago lost track of the myriad of terms and phrases you have attempted to coin and make mainstream in your quest to redefine "cycling" and turn it into a new reefing science.

On one hand I (honestly) applaud your dedication to the subject and your desire to understand it, but on the other I can't fathom how you think this does anything but confound anybody who participates in one of these threads, especially beginners. I can only imagine how frustrating and confusing this becomes for those new and simply wanting put some fish and coral into a tank and ask how to get started.

Also you posted this on the opening thread

So don't trust titrations with your eyes, but do trust your eyes and a paragraph to judge a "cycle's" state?

Anyway - I will let you get back to visual umpiring, assuming that there is anybody left wishing to play ball...

 

[sesbalders]

Honestly Brandon - you lost me ages ago with the extremely lengthy pseudo-scientific posts and your uncanny ability to turn even the simplest conversation into a "cycling science" opus.

I too, long ago lost track of the myriad of terms and phrases you have attempted to coin and make mainstream in your quest to redefine "cycling" and turn it into a new reefing science.

On one hand I (honestly) applaud your dedication to the subject and your desire to understand it, but on the other I can't fathom how you think this does anything but confound anybody who participates in one of these threads, especially beginners. I can only imagine how frustrating and confusing this becomes for those new and simply wanting put some fish and coral into a tank and ask how to get started.

Also you posted this on the opening thread

So don't trust titrations with your eyes, but do trust your eyes and a paragraph to judge a "cycle's" state?

Anyway - I will let you get back to visual umpiring, assuming that there is anybody left wishing to play ball...

Having cycled 100s of tropical tanks and now half way through my second marine tank. I recon put some live sand in it, live rock in there as much as you can, get it dirty with something smelly. Wait for the ammonia to go up and down, wait for the nitrates to go up and down a bit. Fire some snails in. (Cuz they are cheap and the kids don’t cry when they die). Stress out about adding some fish, get tempted and buy some fish. Put them in and stress out they are going to die. Get diatoms then get gha bha in fact all the ha’s. Scrub vacuum, water change, blackout, snails crabs urchins, blennies, scrub some more, bit of scraping. Then eventually one glorious day it’s all done and your tank looks like a scene from
Finding memo. Put your feet up. Watch the fish. Justify that you’ve got the money and room for another tank. Repeat process!!!

 

[Fishy Guy]

I'm hesitant to resurrect this thread and am not worried about the nitrogen cycle but am curious what you @brandon429 mean by disease prep?

You reference it several times and link to the disease sub-forum but I'm confused as there's nothing there that uses the same terminology unless you're just talking about a quarantine process?

Also, you reference a pre-fish fallow period but what benefit does that provide? The definition of fallow I'm familiar with is removing all of the livestock from a tank after an outbreak to let the disease/parasite "die out" before re-adding them.

I would greatly appreciate it if you or anyone else is able to elaborate.

 

[brandon429]

Thanks for the bump, I've used the info in this thread to fix cycles all year long/ this thread here below is a great example of bucking current quick- stocking trends in favor of disease control:

Has anyone done coral/inverts only and no fish at first?

Fish seem to be the main cause of disruption in a display tank, given the current circumstances in the hobby with pests (ich, velvet, parasites, etc.). I have been in this hobby for 18 years, and the amount of pests that are showing up lately is much more (could also be the fact that we have...

www.reef2reef.com

Highlights:


Thanks to quick cycle science *nobody* is having trouble getting ammonia control in place in a reef tank after a basic cycling setup and ten or more days wait (for dry start cycles, cured live rock transfers are always skip cycle setups)

Disease planning is what takes all your effort and measure and planning per above, not the cycle, that part is easy and predictable we show after any common setup attempt.

Reef tank cycles don't stall out, that's a made up risk by bottle bac salesmen to sell us multiple bottles of bacteria


If you are adding quarantined fish first after the cycle end date then you run two tanks: the other is a receiving tank for new corals or clean up crews that get fallowed before addition into the main display. That receiving tank is cleaned out and sterilized for each new addition group

Or you can do what the thread above did, stock the reef completely with inverts and corals and rocks first, and save fish to the very last after the whole tank has been fallowed all at once removing the need for a two tank setup to mitigate disease vectoring

 

[brandon429]

@Fishy Guy this article should be stickied in that forum but it’s not

Biosecurity

A short introduction to aquarium biosecurity

www.reef2reef.com

that presents disease control as an ongoing ordered set of steps that controls all inputs to the tank vs quarantine alone


Glad to have the input for the big picture tie in needed

 

[brandon429]

How many fish can a person add after a cycle is complete?

Cycled tank how many fish can I add initially?

I keep getting varying information from 2-3 and let the good bacteria adjust to the new bio load for a month or so and add 1-2 more. On the other hand I’m hearing that if it is cycled I can add more which I don’t necessarily think is true. But let me know what y’all think.

www.reef2reef.com

let's check for trends between old and new cycling science posted there.


able to call a cycle complete off one sentence provided in the post? Let’s see:

Cycling Concerns

Hey Guys, I've been cycling my 15 gallon tank now for just over two weeks now. I starting with dry rock and sand and decided to try using red seas reef mature kit to speed up the cycle. I added the ammonia source and the bacterial supplement at the specified intervals. I also added a small...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[brandon429]

A new setup cycles called complete based on visual benthic growth clues, testing did not factor.

In-cycle algea questions

Hi reefers . A Short bit of information first . Started since 12 march with my first reef , coming off a 15 year fresh water story . Tech as followed . - red sea reefer 300 v2 - 2 red sea 90's ( 11 hours at 60blue/10white but still in acclimation atm ) - jebao DCP 3500 ( running at 75% ) -...

www.reef2reef.com

another

Nitrite stuck on 1.0, help?

Hello, I have been cycling a 60 liters tank for about 5 weeks now, but my nitrite is stuck on 1.0 for about 1,5 weeks now. My ammonia is consistently 0 for about 2-3 weeks allready & my nitrite used to be higher (2.0 to 3.0) I used pre cycled wet rock from a running tank at the LFS. I allready...

www.reef2reef.com

That's two more ammonia control jobs worked without testing.

To handle 100% of cycle issues without using ammonia test kits is updated cycling science. Old cycling science is never predictive its hesitant, misleading, and based solely on a test kits reading. Old cycling science is never certain about a cycles completion it's cautious and hesitant.

We define exact confident cycle end dates and we invite all seneye audits.

 

[brandon429]

A cycle called finished immediately, using two words from the description:

Six weeks

Cycling Question - possible 2nd cycle?

Tank is 6 weeks running. On 5/14 ammonia was .08 and Nitrite was .02. I really thought we were at the end of the cycle. Each week, the numbers were falling. Keep in mind, these were using Hanna Testers. I'm sure on API, using the color tests, people would have all said they were both at zero...

www.reef2reef.com

Let's see who agrees and who doesn't add the thread builds, track it with me.

Everything typed in this thread is what's being applied there, let's test our method live-time above. Starting rn

Will the tank crash or live? Animals: stay alive or die?

By rule, whatever her setpoint ammonia measure is on her particular meter is safe. She has rocks in the tank like we all do

That means the ammonia control ability is like yours and mine, but kit readouts can range due to a number of variables

The steadfast link isn't the test reading


It's the layout of the display reef. Watch what the tank pic looks like when it's posted, who runs a six week stocked reef tank with no rocks? The levels she's posting are her system adjusting just fine to its current constants for nh4 levels, a crash isn't coming because her rock stack works like ours do: it handles ammonia just fine.

Ever seen a six week cycle chart in any book on aquaculture? No, they're four week charts.


Daily running ammonia control in a reef tank display does not retrograde in strength, it increases due to surface area changes towards the greater, everyday a reef tank stays running. More vital space for new filter bacteria growth plus new photosynthetic creatures forming daily: ammonia control gets better, not worse over time. That rule applies to all cycling threads.




We know how long it takes to colonize a stack of rocks, standard cycle charts from books still apply. It's predetermined already...how long cycles take. They don't ever trend towards undoing, or mini cycling, or we would have examples of those crashes on file: nobody can find any.

we would like to review any links out there for failed cycles people might like to post.