Upgrading from 55 to 120

[Chad Sepulvado]

Okay, I recently acquired a 6ft 120. My plans are to move my rock and livestock from my 55 gallon into my 120. I have 40 pounds of live sand, and. 40 pounds of new dry rock.
My plan was to use a few gallons of my tank water and a few live rocks and let the tank run for a few weeks. My question is, since I’m using live sand and the same live rock, would there be harm in moving the livestock immediately, or would the tank and new rock need a completely new cycle? The wife is on me about not having two tanks in the living room weeks lol.

 

[christopher.lauwers]

I’ve debated this myself for when I move tanks.

Honestly play it safe... do a water change pie that water in the new tank. Move some sand as well. Let it cycle for a few days or weeks.

I don’t think you need to wait months. But at least a few weeks?

 

[brandon429]

here's 23 pages of the exact work:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/t...ead-aka-one-against-many.230281/#post-2681445

the benefit of that bulk work is patterns in the new setups, how we controlled cycles on all of them and never used ammonia testers along the way. What is true is usually opposite of what most people feel comfortable doing, so highlights from the work thread are (hey can we have your pics and documentation too/add to the work):

-if you move dirty substrates over, a cycle is likely.
-if you move 1000% clean substrates over, those rinsed totally clear of detritus, then no cycle will ever happen for the next 23 pages
-our hobby is absolutely built on fear of loss of bacteria, that never occurs to a degree of instability. It occurs to the degree of .25 ammonia when tested, just like most running tanks we can see in threads... detritus is what kills peoples tanks as they hesitantly move/clean in order to preserve bac they thought were weak
-live rock will never cycle when you just move tanks. My whole reef is drained for 30 minutes in that thread for recurring proof of this. its 13 yrs old and had about 1000 drains. record is 33 mins in cold winter air/refilled/no cycle
-you can replace, leave out, rinse, reuse, do anything you want to do to the live sand just don't move over clouding detritus. slice it anyway you want, if you move waste you risk loss and if you don't, you have 0% chance of system loss
-you can buy or use bottle bac if you want, we have never done it. Total control over your tank bacteria is demonstrably possible. we hesitate never, at any phase, and predict ahead of time what happen with bacteria and test readings then after pics and vid show it in the thread.
-when you set up your new tank don't run the lights as full production normal, ramp them up for a week like you just got new lighting.

its not that cycles occur sometimes, or iffy, or unpredictably. they occur when we simply don't factor detritus where it exists.

 

[BestMomEver]

I recently consolidated two tanks into one. I had no cycle and no losses. Siphon a little of your water into containers and put rocks directly in. Don’t let them sit out or stuff will start to die. Put your fish in a separate bucket. Move the old tank out of the way. Move new tank in. I would use new sand. It’s easier and less risky than using old sand. Put in new water but save room cause rock will displace some water and you’ll want to use some of your old water. Put old rocks in. Fill the rest of the way with old water. Throw in fish. Done. Took a whole day. We moved a 60 and a 32 into a 90.

 

[Chad Sepulvado]

here's 23 pages of the exact work:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/t...ead-aka-one-against-many.230281/#post-2681445

the benefit of that bulk work is patterns in the new setups, how we controlled cycles on all of them and never used ammonia testers along the way. What is true is usually opposite of what most people feel comfortable doing, so highlights from the work thread are (hey can we have your pics and documentation too/add to the work):

-if you move dirty substrates over, a cycle is likely.
-if you move 1000% clean substrates over, those rinsed totally clear of detritus, then no cycle will ever happen for the next 23 pages
-our hobby is absolutely built on fear of loss of bacteria, that never occurs to a degree of instability. It occurs to the degree of .25 ammonia when tested, just like most running tanks we can see in threads... detritus is what kills peoples tanks as they hesitantly move/clean in order to preserve bac they thought were weak
-live rock will never cycle when you just move tanks. My whole reef is drained for 30 minutes in that thread for recurring proof of this. its 13 yrs old and had about 1000 drains. record is 33 mins in cold winter air/refilled/no cycle
-you can replace, leave out, rinse, reuse, do anything you want to do to the live sand just don't move over clouding detritus. slice it anyway you want, if you move waste you risk loss and if you don't, you have 0% chance of system loss
-you can buy or use bottle bac if you want, we have never done it. Total control over your tank bacteria is demonstrably possible. we hesitate never, at any phase, and predict ahead of time what happen with bacteria and test readings then after pics and vid show it in the thread.
-when you set up your new tank don't run the lights as full production normal, ramp them up for a week like you just got new lighting.

its not that cycles occur sometimes, or iffy, or unpredictably. they occur when we simply don't factor detritus where it exists.

So thoroughly clean my rock before moving it over and no cycle will occur? Was looking at your mentioned thread. Looks like you hand turn the “old” rock for 30 min a piece before moving to remove all detritus? I plan on moving no sand, but I must have a sand bed for my eel should I scrub the rock with a toothbrush as well? Do I clean the rock in RODI water? Tank water? Tap?

 

[brandon429]

rocks are always cleaned in saltwater, its only the sandbeds we abuse ha

creative ways of cleaning rock include just swishing single large pieces in buckets of clean sw or tank water siphoned off for this use...swish them well and cast off the waste

if there is algae on it, we like to clean that off however/rinse in saltwater until the rock is algae free, then put some peroxide on the former invaded spots, after you cleaned them...this slows grow back very well in the new system.

even though in that thread it may seem like a big haphazard mix of actions its surely all repeated patterns or we would have dead tanks. regarding sand, we can get away with tap rinsing because we don't put tap water back into the tank.

we do the final rinse in saltwater, evacuating that rinsing tap...then the sand is back to new basically. you might instead choose to buy new sand and use it, however is fine. just input no clouding sand, ever, and it w be fine. the bacteria in the sand do not matter, we don't mind if they all leave at once. its the bac on the rocks we're careful with, so saltwater only dealings there.

 

[Chad Sepulvado]

Awesome. I will clean the heck out of them.

rocks are always cleaned in saltwater, its only the sandbeds we abuse ha

creative ways of cleaning rock include just swishing single large pieces in buckets of clean sw or tank water siphoned off for this use...swish them well and cast off the waste

if there is algae on it, we like to clean that off however/rinse in saltwater until the rock is algae free, then put some peroxide on the former invaded spots, after you cleaned them...this slows grow back very well in the new system.

even though in that thread it may seem like a big haphazard mix of actions its surely all repeated patterns or we would have dead tanks. regarding sand, we can get away with tap rinsing because we don't put tap water back into the tank.

we do the final rinse in saltwater, evacuating that rinsing tap...then the sand is back to new basically. you might instead choose to buy new sand and use it, however is fine. just input no clouding sand, ever, and it w be fine. the bacteria in the sand do not matter, we don't mind if they all leave at once. its the bac on the rocks we're careful with, so saltwater only dealings there.

t

 

[brandon429]

this basic flow handles upgrades just fine in some form or fashion:

drain off topwater currently running into brutes or containers to use as rock rinse water. be catching fish on the way down/removing rocks and setting aside as the tank drains. hold fish ideally alone, not with rocks, since rocks might have some pent up waste and this is the locus of all cycles.

try to hold maybe corals and frags w the fish where possible, but rocks/sand anything w waste in it is worked separately not in their presence.

eventually you'll have a tank nearly drained leaving only muddy sand and water

on the new tank, we basically are man scaping the rocks back to good looks, being our own grazers etc targeting with a knife (I prefer knife tip scraping over brushing, it dislodges anchors much better and is precise) and occasionally dabbing peroxide (not dipping, spot treat) on former algae spots to kill the anchors.

soon you will have rocks that do not cast off a cloud of waste when you swish them in the test bucket, they'll simply swish clean. ready for use.

whatever you do with the sand, rinse it under tap for 3 hours or just buy new sand, be deliberate with no clouding and all w go well.

 

[Chad Sepulvado]

this basic flow handles upgrades just fine in some form or fashion:

drain off topwater currently running into brutes or containers to use as rock rinse water. be catching fish on the way down/removing rocks and setting aside as the tank drains. hold fish ideally alone, not with rocks, since rocks might have some pent up waste and this is the locus of all cycles.

try to hold maybe corals and frags w the fish where possible, but rocks/sand anything w waste in it is worked separately not in their presence.

eventually you'll have a tank nearly drained leaving only muddy sand and water

on the new tank, we basically are man scaping the rocks back to good looks, being our own grazers etc targeting with a knife (I prefer knife tip scraping over brushing, it dislodges anchors much better and is precise) and occasionally dabbing peroxide (not dipping, spot treat) on former algae spots to kill the anchors.

soon you will have rocks that do not cast off a cloud of waste when you swish them in the test bucket, they'll simply swish clean. ready for use.

whatever you do with the sand, rinse it under tap for 3 hours or just buy new sand, be deliberate with no clouding and all w go well.

Thanks Brandon. Will do.

 

[brandon429]

hey if you'll take pics we can link the prep and during/after work its so helpful to keep compiling these~~ $ are on the line. I know people who love their fish as much as dogs, to lose one is a real tangible month-ruining loss. its literally putting your whole ecosystem under surgery its so fun and exciting and worth it, when its all done.

I still feel weird when I take my vase apart and blast rinse it. it goes against every grain we were ever taught in keeping aquariums lol but them outcomes....so pretty and reliable.

sometime later this summer I w take my 13 yr tank apart and do what you are about to do...this is the prevention of old tank syndrome, the ridding of detritus... it makes reef tanks live forever biologically speaking. since my tank weighs about 20 pounds full running with rocks and corals, my job is about an hour and that's not fair!! neat thread can't wait to see.

 

[Chad Sepulvado]

hey if you'll take pics we can link the prep and during/after work its so helpful to keep compiling these~~ $ are on the line. I know people who love their fish as much as dogs, to lose one is a real tangible month-ruining loss. its literally putting your whole ecosystem under surgery its so fun and exciting and worth it, when its all done.

I still feel weird when I take my vase apart and blast rinse it. it goes against every grain we were ever taught in keeping aquariums lol but them outcomes....so pretty and reliable.

sometime later this summer I w take my 13 yr tank apart and do what you are about to do...this is the prevention of old tank syndrome, the ridding of detritus... it makes reef tanks live forever biologically speaking. since my tank weighs about 20 pounds full running with rocks and corals, my job is about an hour and that's not fair!! neat thread can't wait to see.

I’ll be home Saturday and take pics throughout the process.

 

[RichReef]

If the tanks are close enough to each other I would set up the 120 and temporarily plumb it into the 55. I would start with slow dripping and over a weeks time ramp it up until the tanks are mixed. Separate the tanks plumbing. Use the 55 as a swish tank. Keep it running with some filter media to clean up the water and move to the next rock(s).

You can swish the rocks in the 55 before moving them to the 120. I've moved sand using a steel kitchen strainer and a baster to blast it out a little.

I've done this several times when upgrading. It was inconvenient but a flawless transfer. I once had a pipe running across the room over flowing into a sump.

Your corals will love you. New fresh water. Clean rocks and sand. Fully cycled.

 

[Chad Sepulvado]

Update. Got the tank set up yesterday, 104 pounds of new live sand, 5 gallons of “old” aquarium water, bio media from “old” tank, new power heads, and 40 pounds of new rock. I let it circulate over night and clear up. Today I took each piece of desirable love rock from the “old” tank, and hand waved it in the “old” aquarium water. I then scrubbed each piece with a tooth brush several times. I repeated the rinse scrub cycle several times on each piece of live rock, then added each piece to the tank. All livestock was transferred after the live rock.

 

[Chad Sepulvado]

 

[Chad Sepulvado]

I’m missing a prime HD , it was sent in for repairs, I know it’s not even.

 

[brandon429]

hey great that looks like a pretty clean setup and that tank sure has lots of swimming room that's really good

did you pre rinse all the new sand? using tap it would have taken about 3 hours big job

 

[Chad Sepulvado]

Update. Tank is doing great. No cycle. Full extension on polyps.