Upgrading my Return Pump- Suggestions?

[JoshH]

Glad you found the pump for your system.
But I am confused about the conversation.
Sounds like someone from Abyzz told your LFS that a competitors pump wouldn't work?
How???
Sounds a little???

I agree, I'm a little amiss myself, if you look at the specs. Red Dragons 100W pressure rated pump actually has a higher flow rate than the A100 but a half a foot less head height.....

The only thing I can think of is they were comparing the RD 100 Flow pump to the Abyzz A100...

But all that aside @mikedb I'm glad you finally settled on a pump and that it is working great for you ! At the end of the day that is the most important part.

 

[mikedb]

So Abyzz Corporate informed you that a competitor's pump wouldn't work and you HAD to use the Abyzz 100 to achieve the results?

Glad you found the pump for your system.
But I am confused about the conversation.
Sounds like someone from Abyzz told your LFS that a competitors pump wouldn't work?
How???
Sounds a little???

Sorry guys! Got the two manufacturers confused, and had hoped an edit a few minutes after posting would go unnoticed! Indeed, it was Royal Exclusiv making that strange recommendation for their own pumps.

 

[JoshH]

Sorry guys! Got the two manufacturers confused, and had hoped an edit a few minutes after posting would go unnoticed! Indeed, it was Royal Exclusiv making that strange recommendation for their own pumps.

Were too quick for that

That's still rather surprising they would make that comment such as that... even there own pumps the 100W is enough so I don't see why the Abyzz would be completely wrong for your situation...

Thanks for the info!!

 

[mikedb]

Were too quick for that

That's still rather surprising they would make that comment such as that... even there own pumps the 100W is enough so I don't see why the Abyzz would be completely wrong for your situation...

Thanks for the info!!

Frankly, I am mystified too, and wonder if something was just lost in translation? But I even confirmed that they were understanding correctly and mentioned the existing 80W pump working adequately. According to the retailer, Royal Exclusiv confirmed that the 100W was not recommended and that they suggested the 230w...

I could have pursued it further, but at that point I was getting cold feet on the Red Dragon and there was a great Black Friday sale on the A100.

 

[JoshH]

Frankly, I am mystified too, and wonder if something was just lost in translation? But I even confirmed that they were understanding correctly and mentioned the existing 80W pump working adequately. According to the retailer, Royal Exclusiv confirmed that the 100W was not recommended and that they suggested the 230w...

I could have pursued it further, but at that point I was getting cold feet on the Red Dragon and there was a great Black Friday sale on the A100.

Sorry for asking so many questions but do you think Royal Exclusive was referring to there own 100w pump and not the A100? And that you would need the 230w speedy pump instead as the 100w speedy pump wouldn't be enough?

Really curious on this one as I keep flipping back and forth on my return pump and the RE was at the top of my DC list anyway...

 

[mfinn]

Sorry guys! Got the two manufacturers confused, and had hoped an edit a few minutes after posting would go unnoticed! Indeed, it was Royal Exclusiv making that strange recommendation for their own pumps.

I've always said, if you are unsure of a answer, post it anyways. There will always be a ton of people correcting you. lol

Sounds like you got a great pump.

 

[mfinn]

Sorry for asking so many questions but do you think Royal Exclusive was referring to there own 100w pump and not the A100? And that you would need the 230w speedy pump instead as the 100w speedy pump wouldn't be enough?

Really curious on this one as I keep flipping back and forth on my return pump and the RE was at the top of my DC list anyway...

I have no regrets going with Red Dragon pumps on my 233.

 

[mikedb]

Sorry for asking so many questions but do you think Royal Exclusive was referring to there own 100w pump and not the A100? And that you would need the 230w speedy pump instead as the 100w speedy pump wouldn't be enough?

Really curious on this one as I keep flipping back and forth on my return pump and the RE was at the top of my DC list anyway...

Sorry for making my post so confusing. Yes, Royal Exclusiv mentioned that their own Speedy 100 HighPressure was not recommended for my application (14’ head at 500gpm), and they recommended their Speedy 230 HighPressure. They never commented on the Abyzz.

For what it is worth, I think the Red Dragon pump would have worked fine. But given the initial non response to my inquiries to corporate and then this mystifying response, (admittedly, relayed via a local retailer) I just wasn’t feeling comfortable making the investment.

Feel free to PM me your email address and I’ll forward you the email exchange.

 

[Gp!]

I'm glad you got this all worked out. However I feel obligated to say what the heck at @CoralVue as their response doesn't make sense. Head height is head height...

This certainly makes me nervous of my purchases with them. Hopefully it is an uninformed customer service rep but that doesn't seem to be the case since they were backed up with the same response?

Really nothing of importance omitted from that exchange?

 

[Gp!]

Had a few glasses of bourbon but I think the uncensored version of my post is appropriate here lol

 

[mikedb]

As a business owner myself, I am often disappointed by the negativity I read on these forums directed towards the companies that support this hobby. Many of these companies have invested significant sums into innovations, products or services that have significantly improved and simplified the hobby. CoralVue, for example, represents manufacturers who could likely not support the US market on their own, and contributes significantly to the variety of products that we are able to choose from. Indeed, they are the manufacturer's rep for the Abyzz pump I ultimately chose.

I also want to emphasize that I did not start this thread with the intention of being negative towards Coralvue, Reef Octopus, or anyone. But when multiple posters suggested I contact CoralVue, I did, and thus the rest of this thread transpired.

And I do think CoralVue is in the wrong here. They continue to falsely advertise the Varios-8 as being pressure-rated to an 18' head height. They continue to post a head loss chart with rated flow up to that 18' head/pressure height. They continue to sell the product with a manual that doesn't even mention this limitation. And the prohibition on 'second floor applications' isn't mentioned on BRS's website where I bought the product (just a vague caution about 'high head applications'), one of their largest distributors.

And most of all they have left me, who reasonably relied on their marketing materials, the owner of a useless (to me), unwarranted, $400 pump.

I normally consider email exchanges private, and am reluctant to post my discussion with the CoralVue Rep here. But, in post #30 here, a different CoralVue rep accused me of being less than forthcoming about my situation (wrongly, as @JoshH mentioned in post #32), so I think I am right to be 'forthcoming' and post the entire dialog, with names removed.

Hi,

I have been running two Varios 8 pumps in a 'hot backup' configuration (only one pump running at a time, but the second one plumbed in place in case of a failure in the primary pump). They are operating as return pumps for my basement sump. While the vertical height is closer to 9', I estimate the head pressure is around 12' after plumbing losses.

While the pumps work well, I have been very disappointed in the noise level they are operating at. I am getting ~400GPH of flow at 80% power, but at that level the pump is so noisy that it can be clearly heard from the second floor- 20' above the sump. The pump noise is audible everywhere in the house, and is louder than my furnace and refrigerator. Our house is a new build and very quiet, but nonetheless these pumps are by far my loudest piece of equipment.

Also, every 10-20 seconds the pump sounds like it 'hiccups'.. it gets quiet and sounds like the RPM drops. It recovers in a fraction of a second, but makes the noise especially annoying.

Both of my Varios 8 pumps (purchased at the same time from the same retailer) exhibit this phenomenon, so I assumed that these pumps were just a disappointment. But I have posted online about purchasing a new pump to replace these, and the community seems to think this is not normal and that I should contact support.

Do you have any thoughts?

Thanks,
Mike

name: Michael ********
email: **********@gmail.com
modelNumber: Varios 8
purchaseFrom: Bulk Reef Supply
purchaseDate: Nov 2018
installDate: Feb 2019

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Hello Michael ***************,

We would need to know more about your plumbing configuration, if you can provide us with more details that would be helpful, pictures are even better.

---
Sincerely,
A**** **************
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Hi A****,

Of course, that makes a lot of sense. Please see attached some photos. IMG_2111 is of the basement portion, showing the two pumps plumbed behind 1-1/4" check valves, joined in a 1-1/2" Y, running upstairs. IMG_0277 shows the upstairs plumbing (return is on the left), with a 1" apex flow meter, and then tying into the stock 3/4" Red Sea plumbing.

Does that make more sense now?

Thanks,
Mike
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Hello Michael ***************,

The VarioS-8 pumps are NOT pressure rated pumps so they will not work in your current plumbing set up, you cannot use the VarioS 8 pump to push water from one floor to another. Unfortunately, the way you are using them will also void the warranty. We do not advertise nor print that the pumps are pressure rated.

---
Sincerely,
A**** *********
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Hi A****,

Thanks for your response. Will all due respect, I am mystified by it.

Your website specifies a 18ft head height, a pressure specification. Why is this even specified if the pump cannot be used in those conditions? Your website also provides a head loss chart- but what you are telling me is that the entire thing is invalid, since the pump can only be operated at zero head?

As you can understand, I am mystified, since this pump is sold as a sump return pump, a pressure application.

Could you point to the provision in your warranty that voids the warranty when used in my configuration?

Thanks,
Mike
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Hello Michael,

Our warranty on the VarioS 8 can be found here:

https://www.coralvue.com/varios-8-controllable-circulation-pump

It is also clearly stated on the page: Note: THIS IS NOT A PRESSURE RATED PUMP. This pump is not ideal for second-floor applications or to feed Beckett or downdraft skimmers where consistent pressure is necessary.

Therefore operating the pump in a second-floor configuration would be considered an abnormal operating condition and our warranty states it is void if the pumps were to be operated in an abnormal operating condition.

As for the pump having a head height of 18 feet; it will achieve 18 feet without any pressure. Plumbing and the vertical distance the water has to travel adds pressure and reduces the flow of the pump and depending on how many 90's, T fittings, check valves, ball valves, unions, etc...used, each part reduces the overall head pressure. So the VarioS 8 is rated for 18gph without plumbing but if you add your plumbing into the mix you might only end up with 8 feet of head pressure which would barely get the water from the basement to your tank. There are some good head loss calculators on the web, here are a few:

Feature Article: Pump Head Loss Calculator - Easing System Design

Calculating flow for your aquarium just got a little easier.

www.advancedaquarist.com

As you can see, the discussion was becoming nonsensical and I decided not to engage further.

I believe that I have been nothing less than forthcoming and reasonable.

 

[Gp!]

I usually side with the business in reasonable situations because you typically find the consumer had unrealistic expectations. But that is definitely not true here.

It may not be worth the hassle for a few hundred dollars you're probably not going to recoup, but I just remembered something I read awhile back on the various 8.

Check this one out: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/reef-octopus-varios-8-flow-vs-height-test-results.420054/

I didn't reread the post but from memory he had an odd exchange as well. But I think it was corrected and turned out they had a bad batch of power supplies causing the pumps to perform below spec. Maybe that is your problem?