Upgrading Sump Area, How Does My Design Look? (Also semi-auto water changes)

[Ayrity]

So I want to upgrade my sump area. Currently it is not under my tank as my (65g) tank is on a (very sturdy) non regular piece of furniture. I have a sideboard/buffet/standalone cabinet system next to it and I am actually looking to get a new real solid wood one that is nice that I can plumb rigidly and add some extra equipment to (xmas is coming!). Currently I have a trigger 26 sump and an ATO and I just drop the ato pump into one of those 5 gallon jugs when I make a new one of fresh water. I want to add another tank/sump/water container that is about 20 gallons upstream from my sump. I want it for more water volume for stability, and also I want to add a Clarisea roller to my system and dont have the room at the moment. I figured I might as well design it to help with water changes too, so below is my quick drawing of how I want things set up, and to the right is a close-up of the water change plumbing. Basically, its a small return pump with 2 3-way valves in the plumbing so I can drain water out of that 20 gallon tank into a bucket, then flip the valves, swap the bucket and fill that 20 gallon tank back up with new salt water from a bucket. The 20g tank will be drilled and have an overflow going to the (lower) input of the sump, and also be drilled for a long "straw" of pvc going to almost the bottom of the 20g tank leading to the small water change pump so I can get as much of that water out as possible during the change. The bucket side of the WC system will have a swing out pvc pot filler type arm with a length of vinyl hose at the end to reach the bucket on the floor.

All that sound ok and reasonable? Hopefully yes, and I am open to creative criticism, so help me make my system robust and smart.

Now I just need to find the right size/shape sideboard server cabinets to fit everything and be made of solid real wood with a real wood back so I can put screws into it to hold pipe etc. Any help on where to look for that? The cabinet I have now sucks and I hate it, and the better it looks, the less heat I'll take from my wife about all the upgrades on the inside

Thanks everyone.

 

[Ayrity]

Oh, and has anyone used a water change system like this before? If so did you like it? Did you design yours differently? Let me know.

 

[Ayrity]

Bump

 

[JoshH]

So I popped over here and from what I can see there are a few difficulties with the current plan. First is the valve setup for WCs, I'm not sure where you would find a 3 way pvc valve or are we talking something smaller than standard PVC? What size plumbing is all this?

Also how would you start a siphon for the pump to draw water from the WC bucket into the sump again? I'm just having a hard time visualizing it right now....

Lastly for now, how would this swing arm function? Just a few unions you losen off, swing it out and retighten? Is the swing arm for pumping the water out of the sump during water changes only?

Oh and how are we bringing fresh water into the scenario? 5 gallon buckets?

 

[JoshH]

This would be how I would plumb it myself. Similar to a standard water mixing station actually...

Excuse the terrible drawing but assuming you want to use a bucket to do your water change I would have one bucket, ideally a square one, with a valve on the outside bulkhead and a 90° elbow positioned downwards to get the most out of the bucket. This attached to a flex hose with a union on the end of it. This connects to the other end of the union on one branch T'd off the inlet to the pump with a valve. The other inlet would get plumbed to the bottom of the new 20G compartment in a similar fashion with the 90 pointing downwards.

The outlet of the pump would go straight up T off one side and direct it back into the 20G with a valve. The other side will have a valve and one union attached to a solid section of pipe with an elbow at the end of it so all you have to do is losen the union slightly, fold the arm out (make sure the height when swung up is taller than a 5 Gallon bucker), tighten back up and your ready to drain the sump section.

All a water change would take is swinging the one arm up, opening the valve on the inlet side connected to the sump compartment and the one on the arm. Turning the pump on and draining it all out. Then close those valves and connect the bucket to the bottom union, open the valves on the inlet and bucket and the one that goes from the outlet to back into the compartment. Turn the pump on and while it's draining the bucket you can keep pouring saltwater into it from another bucket.

Also worth noting instead of using a swing arm to drain you could leave just a union after the valve, use a flexible hose with a union attached and when you want to drain it, roll the hose out to a sink or tub, connect it at the union, turn the pump on and puml the compartment right down the drain

Hopefully all that made some kind of sense lol

 

[Ayrity]

So I popped over here and from what I can see there are a few difficulties with the current plan. First is the valve setup for WCs, I'm not sure where you would find a 3 way pvc valve or are we talking something smaller than standard PVC? What size plumbing is all this?

Also how would you start a siphon for the pump to draw water from the WC bucket into the sump again? I'm just having a hard time visualizing it right now....

Lastly for now, how would this swing arm function? Just a few unions you losen off, swing it out and retighten? Is the swing arm for pumping the water out of the sump during water changes only?

Oh and how are we bringing fresh water into the scenario? 5 gallon buckets?

Thanks so much for responding! I'll take your points one at a time.

The valve setup is for water changes, and pvc 3-way valves are easily found online, I just googled and it seems they are plentiful. The WC plumbing is probably in the 3/4 or 1/2 inch diameter range.

The valves are set up so that you can switch the intake and output of the same pump, exactly so the steps would be for a WC: Turn off the return pump, swing out the pvc arm to an empty bucket or sink/outside, turn on the WC pump, empty the 20g tank, tun off the WC pump, flip the two valves, put buckets of new SW under the arm (with a bit of flex hose on it to reach the bottom of the bucket) and turn on the WC pump again to fill the 20G tank again. I am clearly not using a submersible pump since they have to be wet and primed to pull any water. I will be using this---> It is a diaphragm pump that can start dry and self-prime. Might have to step down the pressure it outputs, but thats easy to do with pvc fittings of various types, or possibly electrically.

The swing arm, I am not exactly sure yet. I may just straight up use a pot filler arm (https://www.ebay.com/i/193143185907...MIvuW3k6mr5gIVoINaBR2ovQ-9EAkYEyABEgKQlvD_BwE), I mean, if it's good enough for drinking water, it wont rust or anything right? If that won't work I could use unions or just vinyl tubing sure, I wont be that broken up about it, but it would just be so dang cool to swing an arm out of that furniture and not have to bring anything more than a bucket. I have an opportunity to make this exactly how I want, and I want to get rid of having to bring another pump, plugging it in, holding the hoses in the right place, while switching the power to the pump on and off with my toe, and lugging a huge trash can around, and dripping water out of the siphon hose etc etc. Just easier and cleaner and it's all built in.

New Salt Water will be delivered by the 5 gallon buckets yes. I wish I had the room or the tank was in the right spot to have some kind of sleek mixing station that I could pump from, but I just don't, so I'll live with moving buckets as long as everything else is super easy!

 

[JoshH]

I should have worded things a little better in regards to the valve lol, yes they are certainly available but they are usually FAR more money that they are worth, cheapest 1/2" one I've been able to locate is $100.00 a valve for something of good quality lol some of them even go up to $300+ each....

A self priming pump is an excellent solution just be careful you'll want a spout for the arm that goes kinda deep into the bucket you're pumping into. They usually have a lot of pressure backing them and can create a lot of splashing... there are some available from Seaflo that have adjustable outputs to control this though so you can look into those.

Your swing arm, or atleast the one you posted will rust out in short order... your best bet is to stick with PVC if you can... or like I said if you're willing to wrap a hose up just have a union connection on the end of the outlet and on one end of the hose connect it, roll it to a sink or tub and pump it right down the drain

Both your setup and the one I posted will work, my option might be slightly cheaper but that's not the end all be all of things.

 

[Ayrity]

Is there something I dont understand about why these wont work?
pressure I figure I can adjust using another valve in there somewhere, or even plumbing in a pressure regulator, those must be available for pvc right?

Yeah ill probably just use a union for the swing arm.

Thanks so much for your input on this!

 

[JoshH]

They will work but you will need to add unions to them to make them removable for future cleaning, maintenance or replacement, also they are pretty large plumbing wise but you could reduce down at the union easily enough...

This would be a half inch True Union Ball valve....

1/2

Valworx 551430 True Union 3-way T-port PVC ball valves are used as a flow diverter or mixing function. Corrosion resistant valves are suitable for use with water and other liquid media compatible with the materials of construction (not recommended for use with compressed air or gas). Ideal for...

www.valworx.com

I would say atleast stick with the Hayward, valves aren't worth going super cheap with, Atleast IMO...

 

[Ayrity]

Awesome. Seems pretty straightforward. I'll update you as things come along!