Urgent Help yellow coris wrasse!!!

[Wen]

Just to confirm:

Day 1 - dose triple sulfa & furan2
Day 2 - repeat full dose both
Day 3 - 25% water change THEN full dose both
Day 4 - dose both
Day 5 - 25% wc THEN dose both
Day 6 - dose both
Day 7 - 25% wc THEN dose both
Day 8 - dose both....

Repeat this cycle until 14th day?

 

[Wen]

48 hours and good improvement

 

[ngoodermuth]

Just to confirm:

Day 1 - dose triple sulfa & furan2
Day 2 - repeat full dose both
Day 3 - 25% water change THEN full dose both
Day 4 - dose both
Day 5 - 25% wc THEN dose both
Day 6 - dose both
Day 7 - 25% wc THEN dose both
Day 8 - dose both....

Repeat this cycle until 14th day?

10-14 days, depending on how he’s looking by then. Ask long as there is no copper in the tank, you can dose Prime between water changes if you see ammonia creeping up.

Looks much better already!

 

[Wen]

I’m back and looking for advice.

Yellow wrasse made full recovery and I put it into large qt. No disease obvious in large qt, at this point.

76 days fallow was up, black mollies slowly acclimated to dt, in qt noticed CBB was getting thin, so decided since dt now had mollies in i would put CBB in to fatten up (and if ich appeared I could remove and treat it). All mollies died within 3 days with no ich spots. CBB showed 1 ich spot on tail. Horror! Ich spot gone after 2 days and no spots visible on CBB today. Fish happy foraging live rock.


Started looking even closer at fish in big Qt. No spots. Decided to keep watching dt single fish and watch the qt fish for spots. No spots.

Yesterday, I see single spot on bristletooth. Today I see bristletooth spot, bellus spot and 3 tiny spots on tail of yellow wrasse.

Also, male flame hawk stopped eating (that I could see) a week ago. I made half hearted attempts to catch him for 2 days while observing no weight loss or visual problems with him. This morning dead. No visible sign of infection or spots.




All fish went through 30 days CP, wrasses did ttm. I don’t know where I failed. ???
Obviously dt was clean of ich and I’ve now reinfected it with CBB.

Questions:
Is repeating CP full strength 30 days again and ttm for wrasses what I should do?
Fallow 76 days again.

I’ve struggled with keeping fish bacterial infection free in the qt. Frequent wc and huge skimmer going in it. Feeding lrs and other foods.

Considered giving up and living with ich in dt, but I want to be ich free.

Please advise.

 

[ngoodermuth]

Remind me, do you have any fish that won’t tolerate copper?

If it were me, I’d combine them in a QT and treat the lot (wrasses included) with copper.

TTM treats ich, but not velvet... and wrasses are infamous Typhoid Mary fish when it comes to velvet.

 

[ngoodermuth]

Also, just covering all possibilities... were any of the fish treated or checked for flukes?

 

[Wen]

Remind me, do you have any fish that won’t tolerate copper?

If it were me, I’d combine them in a QT and treat the lot (wrasses included) with copper.

TTM treats ich, but not velvet... and wrasses are infamous Typhoid Mary fish when it comes to velvet.

Thought velvet kills quickly and coats a fish with powder like spots. ? I’ve had all these fish a long time which makes it even harder to lose one.

Yellow coris and ruby head wrasse,
Female hawk
Pair clowns
Threadfin cardinalfish
Royal grama
Whitetail bristletooth
Bellus
Chalk basslet

I went with vet prescription CP because I read it was more gentle on fish, reading that copper can shorten lifespans, and difficulty in keeping copper levels consistent and tests for copper.

I’m thinking I failed with wrasses ttm which brought ich to big qt.

I’ve dipped 2 fish for flukes and nothing. Here is pick of dead hawk dip, only real visible particle looks like a scale off fish to me. ?

 

[ngoodermuth]

Yea, if there were flukes you would have seen little sesame seed shaped worms in the dip.

I need to go back and re-read the entire thread, anything you can provide regarding a timeline between the original issue to now might help.

Particularly new additions and treatments already administered.

 

[ngoodermuth]

Was ich in the DT the reason these fish were being treated initially?

What brought in the original issue as far as you know?

CP, as good as it is... does have some drawbacks. The biggest being that there is no way to ensure it is still therapeutic for the entire treatment since we can’t test for it. There is some speculation that bio-film can degrade it, making it less effective in an established QT.

QT and Biofilm
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sh...p?threads/QT-and-Biofilm.292878/&share_type=t

 

[Wen]

Was ich in the DT the reason these fish were being treated initially?

What brought in the original issue as far as you know?

CP, as good as it is... does have some drawbacks. The biggest being that there is no way to ensure it is still therapeutic for the entire treatment since we can’t test for it. There is some speculation that bio-film can degrade it, making it less effective in an established QT.

QT and Biofilm
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?share_fid=1020&share_tid=292878&url=https://www.reef2reef.com/index.php?threads/QT-and-Biofilm.292878/&share_type=t

Yes, I saw few spots of ich in dt. Uv on dt kept outbreak under control for 6 months, no deaths, no new fish.

How ich got in dt was probably non quarantined last fish threadfin (no spots ever visible).

Cp was premeasured by diamondback, I precisely measured gallons in qt, I think skimmer was removed for CP, ambient lighting, full 30 days, water changes with added cp to keep level consistent, qt quickly cycled (1 wk). That’s why I’m thinking ttm was culprit. But I was very good about washing/drying/disposing airstones/etc.

So, I’m worried about copper.
Your opinion is not try Cp, use copper.
It would be nice to have all fish together, if dosed correctly, will it cause long term harm?

 

[ngoodermuth]

Yes, I saw few spots of ich in dt. Uv on dt kept outbreak under control for 6 months, no deaths, no new fish.

How ich got in dt was probably non quarantined last fish threadfin (no spots ever visible).

Cp was premeasured by diamondback, I precisely measured gallons in qt, I think skimmer was removed for CP, ambient lighting, full 30 days, water changes with added cp to keep level consistent, qt quickly cycled (1 wk). That’s why I’m thinking ttm was culprit. But I was very good about washing/drying/disposing airstones/etc.

So, I’m worried about copper.
Your opinion is not try Cp, use copper.
It would be nice to have all fish together, if dosed correctly, will it cause long term harm?

I don't think there is anything wrong with using CP per say, just maybe need some extra consideration for the medication possibly degrading over time as bio-film starts to form. When I used CP, I transferred to a second sterile QT per @HotRocks method, after 14 days. I think this reduces the risk a bit.

With the wrasses though, it would definitely be easier to treat the entire group with copper. Most of my fish have been treated with copper and they SEEM healthy enough now. It's been popular for quite some time in the hobby as an anti-parasitic treatment. It IS a toxin, though, so there are risks in using it... could there be long-term effects? Maybe... it's not really been determined one way or the other at this point. That's where you need to weigh the risk vs. benefit for your particular situation. You can also use the two-tank method here as well, to limit their exposure to the copper to 14 days vs. 30.

I tend to employ copper more often, mostly because I'm more comfortable knowing that I can test to ensure the level remains where it needs to be. Also, I have a lot of wrasses

 

[Wen]

I don't think there is anything wrong with using CP per say, just maybe need some extra consideration for the medication possibly degrading over time as bio-film starts to form. When I used CP, I transferred to a second sterile QT per @HotRocks method, after 14 days. I think this reduces the risk a bit.

With the wrasses though, it would definitely be easier to treat the entire group with copper. Most of my fish have been treated with copper and they SEEM healthy enough now. It's been popular for quite some time in the hobby as an anti-parasitic treatment. It IS a toxin, though, so there are risks in using it... could there be long-term effects? Maybe... it's not really been determined one way or the other at this point. That's where you need to weigh the risk vs. benefit for your particular situation. You can also use the two-tank method here as well, to limit their exposure to the copper to 14 days vs. 30.

I tend to employ copper more often, mostly because I'm more comfortable knowing that I can test to ensure the level remains where it needs to be. Also, I have a lot of wrasses

Thank you very much for reading all this and your option. ;Shamefullyembarrased

Ok, I read article on bio-film degrading meds, looked at treatment charts (chelated copper seems safest), read about dosing Copper Power & Hanna checker...I like the 14 day option of Copper with transfer to sterile copper free qt.

Can you confirm what I have learned and treatment plan? I don't want to make mistakes.

Treat all my fish in Copper Power dosed at 1.75ppm.
75 gallon qt x 1.475 = 110.6
2.5ppm / 110.6 = .022
1.75 / .022 = 79.54

79.54ml (round to 80ml) is the total ml needed to reach 1.75ppm in the 75gal qt.

Ramp up time of 5 days (16ml of copper power added per day, will divide this into 8ml a.m. and 8ml p.m.)
Use Hanna High Range Copper tester daily to maintain 1.75 ppm.
On day 5 start clock for 14 days.
Top off as needed.
Skimmer running is ok. ? Please say yes.
Shallow and small bowl of sand for wrasses is ok.
Extra airstones running.
Small wave maker running.
Using Hot Rocks "simple guidelines" for calculating a water change, I would add 1.04ml per gallon to keep ppm at 1.75. Once therapeutic ppm level achieved, planning water change every 5 days of 10 gallons. ?
On day 14, move all fish to 30 gallon sterile qt same temp & salinity, no copper Power.
Sterilize 75 gallon qt and skimmer and wavemaker over course of 2 days.
Refill 75 gallon and start observing fish until DT does 76 days fallow again.

Does that look good?