Urgh seriously.
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Sarah24!
2500 Club Member
Hello,
So here is day two feeding and they go insane when it’s feeding time. Here was five cubes of the frozen shrimp mysis soaked in garlic guard. Feed once more just to make sure they were getting a little extra. Today as I was found to have whooping cough and pneumonia (not good) the only ick treatment other than copper was something called ick-x. Not sure if my lfs shop knows as much as they claim but they say it is reef safe. The directions say it is and also is not safe so going to ask everyone else as well lol.
I kept trying to upload my 30 second video but keep saying doesn’t have allowed extension? No idea what that means but here are some photos of the ick x
So here is day two feeding and they go insane when it’s feeding time. Here was five cubes of the frozen shrimp mysis soaked in garlic guard. Feed once more just to make sure they were getting a little extra. Today as I was found to have whooping cough and pneumonia (not good) the only ick treatment other than copper was something called ick-x. Not sure if my lfs shop knows as much as they claim but they say it is reef safe. The directions say it is and also is not safe so going to ask everyone else as well lol.
I kept trying to upload my 30 second video but keep saying doesn’t have allowed extension? No idea what that means but here are some photos of the ick x
Would not use that in first case. If everything continue to be better - or at least not worse - just wait till you get other things. It says formaldehyde. If you use this - you must be sure that it is NO precipitation at all in the bottle. If you even only see trace of precipitation or are unsure - just throw it away. Formaldehyde will convert to paraformaldehyde with time and this is very, very toxic for fish. Once again – if you use formaldehyde based products – be sure there is NO precipitation at all in the bottle – extremely important that it is totally clear. I know because formaldehyde was the standard treatment in many fish farms back in the 80:ties when I use to work in that industry
Sincerely Lasse
Sincerely Lasse
Brew12
Electrical Gru
You need to take better care of yourself young lady! :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:Hello,
So here is day two feeding and they go insane when it’s feeding time. Here was five cubes of the frozen shrimp mysis soaked in garlic guard. Feed once more just to make sure they were getting a little extra. Today as I was found to have whooping cough and pneumonia (not good) the only ick treatment other than copper was something called ick-x. Not sure if my lfs shop knows as much as they claim but they say it is reef safe. The directions say it is and also is not safe so going to ask everyone else as well lol.
I kept trying to upload my 30 second video but keep saying doesn’t have allowed extension? No idea what that means but here are some photos of the ick x
As for Ich-X, it isn't what I would consider reef safe. It can kill some invertebrate and filter feeders. Some coral seem to do ok but others not. It is best used in a QT system.
Sorry to here about your tangs.
Herbtana by MicrobeLift is what I use to 'manage' ick, flashing, etc.
I use a capfull in a 75 gallon tank.
If the flashing doesn't go away within a few hours I'll add another capfull.
We don't get visible ick. Noticing flashing once and then observing the tank for ten minutes is enough for me to add the first capfull.
Turbo snails hate it. They climb up onto the underside of the wet glass top.
Trochus don't seem to like it but don't freak out like the turbos.
No other visible signs of distress from fish or soft corals, gorgonians and Frogspawn.
No UV, no sump, etc. Tank is very low tech.
I probably add a capfull of Herbtana about every other month to a months time.
Hope your tangs are ok.
And please take care of yourself too!
You're too young to be getting pneumonia.
With younger coworkers it's usually alchohol induced sickness, low immunity.
Yours seems to be overworking your body beyond any reasonable level. :-/
You are only a young immortal once.
Please don't break yourself completely. :-/
Herbtana by MicrobeLift is what I use to 'manage' ick, flashing, etc.
I use a capfull in a 75 gallon tank.
If the flashing doesn't go away within a few hours I'll add another capfull.
We don't get visible ick. Noticing flashing once and then observing the tank for ten minutes is enough for me to add the first capfull.
Turbo snails hate it. They climb up onto the underside of the wet glass top.
Trochus don't seem to like it but don't freak out like the turbos.
No other visible signs of distress from fish or soft corals, gorgonians and Frogspawn.
No UV, no sump, etc. Tank is very low tech.
I probably add a capfull of Herbtana about every other month to a months time.
Hope your tangs are ok.
And please take care of yourself too!
You're too young to be getting pneumonia.
With younger coworkers it's usually alchohol induced sickness, low immunity.
Yours seems to be overworking your body beyond any reasonable level. :-/
You are only a young immortal once.
Please don't break yourself completely. :-/
OP
OP
Sarah24!
2500 Club Member
Hello,
That’s why I’m glad I come here because again lfs here doesn’t really study what’s going on. When I saw the fact it has formaldehyde I was like nope. Because I can’t tell if it had had any moisture to it. The other thing is for example marine depot had kick ick and and reef rally. Which I may use both at the same time and order today. It’s terrible when I breath I sound like darth Vader’s wife (helmet and all), but then most of the time lose my voice.
Going on day three in which once again the most that are prone to disease show nothing at all and no change. The purple tang and Lt tang (probably had (if ick ) things drop off. I re cleaned the filter socks with sanitary temp water and changed out the microfilter pads which are 10. Yes they clog up quickly but hoping this buys me some time to order stuff and keep on hand if it comes again.
However watching my hippo tang it flashed a rock once but nothing else has changed. There has been no color change in fish and or eating habits now into the third day. However I don’t think it’d marine velvet because every single gill section that one can see there is not a spot close it. So definitely not out of the woods yet, by any means but will still order the other and also try the ozone as mentioned prior. Not sure if I will try The H2O2 just yet but again as normal all my fish are always kinda skittish. So as soon as I get To close they kinda scatter.
They definitely seem really active and is it normal for ick to appear some what better in 2days?
Brew12
Electrical Gru
Ich can be deceptive because it drops off the fish to reproduce. The symptoms may go away only to have a much larger generation be born causing an even worse infection.
It could be that the fish had something that stressed it making it lose its immunity to Ich and that whatever was causing the stress is gone. Fish can lose their immunity very quickly under stress, but thankfully they also recover fairly quickly.
OP
OP
Sarah24!
2500 Club Member
Hello,
Yes I have both uv in my sump and may get a third one in place in the display for the time. Nobody had a fish trap, and or cleaner shrimp, cleaner wrasse. Frustrating. Not to mention because I’m sick and my own clothes feel heavy lol I had my lfs maintenance person come out and they know my tank pretty well. They just wanted to see how hard it would be to catch the fish and or move rocks. The fact the fish hide and they broke their fish trap so won’t have a new one for weeks etc. but two of them couldn’t break rocks loose on the far side (I feed the fish st the same time to keep them occupied and not add stress.
Definitely may need to implement the ozone and The H2O2. Also note to self do not use excessive rock putty glue etc when doing another tank at some point. I did pick up some much better food as well.
OP
OP
Sarah24!
2500 Club Member
Hello,
Here is an update of my current ick problem and maybe it will work maybe not but so far things have improved. So as sick as I have been I had to do some sole searching and kinda get my act together not only w me but my tank since they literally are my life.
As much as I hate nebulizer treatments, antibiotics and the dreaded prednisone (80mg a day for three days tapering down is no fun. So I just said nope on work and stayed home today, besides I have 297 hours of sick leave I may as well use it.
Secondly my ick problem in my tank.
1.) now I have done some amazing reading, you tube, forums anything I can access and read long enough before headaches kick in. In all the reading I have done it seems that all the info is great but also determines on the tank.
2.) with what I say it could be totally wrong and blow up on me and or too it worked for my tank can’t say it won’t come back or it’s history who knows.
3.) things I had to consider, yes my tank is a fairly mature tank it’s almost 2 months old, I feed really good frozen mysis, probiatic flake food and spinerula and also seaweed now and again. I also soak them in garlic every time since the start of my tank. I still use my uv steralizer 24/7 and since added a third only this time I’m changing things (once here). Starters it is a level A steralizer not just a clarifier, secondly it has an ozone apartus and bypass on top. Now I’m behind knowledge on this and where to get the ozone etc but I’m hoping to get there. Yes it’s not here but going with what I can. Will show pics of what I’m getting and more than likely will have to find away to make it fit in my sump which is best or find a way to suspend it in the stand and plumb it in. I’m going to run a separate dc pump just for that and have the water out put drop directly into the return section. The water or dc pump will sit in the same area as the protein skimmer. So this wasn’t per say cheap but hey worth it to me. For both of them it’s like 775 and then I ordered a current usa dc return pump (smallest one so I can ultimately control flow). The other two uv will stay and I ordered new bulbs for both of them even though both say bulbs are good, why risk it.
Now that’s it’s Friday and I noticed first signs of disease pretty certain it’s marine ick. Within 48 hours no other fish have shown signs are have been infected. The Lt tangs spots are gone (just means parasite fell off and they are making babies now) and the purple tang only has maybe 4-5 spots left.
Now there is a possibility the fish immune system fought it off. There is also the dreaded thought it comes back as a snow storm. Time will tell but, in four days no other fish has developed spots or flashed and all are really eating since I switched to the much better mysis.
We all know copper kills and the go to method not gonna say other wise. Yet I also think it depends solely on the tank. Ripping a mature reef down which will stress corals and fish even more is risky and in terms of being realistic I’m not certain of. Yes ideally catching each fish in a fish trap and throwing in copper is ideal and letting the tank fallow for 90 days. Yes it says 72 but why risk it? Another clear fact I have found is that marine velvet ick etc don’t just come in on fish. They come on snails, crabs, clams, anything wet. The fact we all accilmate new corals or crabs or snails, we are always at risk for transferring ick or velvet who know what else Into our tanks. Yes some have qt tanks but pretty hard to qt snails and crabs and corals in copper. So let’s say you have another tank, since they need a host that means to make sure your not getting any contaminated water one must wait min of 72 days. Just to add literally anything wet, which is honestly stupid.
So my thought and It may come out good or it may go bad we will see. All fish have drastically improved since monday (the two that were sick, and no other fish has shown signs or received any symptoms). In light of this, I strongly believe trying to catch fish adding stress to the tank isn’t really going to help. Not to mention, that unless I literally physically stop adding any corals or clean up crew etc I risk that small potential again. I did have my lfs order two cleaner shrimp, and cleaner wrasse for further use, see I’m alresdy possibly adding ick or velvet into my tank.
In light of this finding the stress factor wasn’t easy and I’m not certain I have found it. The Lt tang is kinda the boss and nobody picks on him at all. Yes a chromie May but he tail slaps them across the tank, and chases them non stop for a day. My purple tang is super shy and is best friends with my tommini tang who had one spot and it’s also gone. Those two are back being best friends and grazing all the rocks together. I’m positive this isn’t velvet because usually velvet if not immediately treated kills the entire tank in a four day span. They may even die while in the hospital tank.
So what have I learned from this whole set back of oh crap.
1.) my whole philosophy of not adding s new fish in fear of transferring ick or velvet now makes pretty much no sense. Yes it’s a much higher risk, but I didn’t add any new fish except my goby 9 months ago roughly, and all others were in after the tank cycled (in sections over three weeks).
2.) Ick and parasites can come in on anything wet, even the net I have used to catch my new fish. Not to mention he is wet from the water so again possible transfer. Yes they normally come out of copper tanks, but parasites can lay dormant.
3.) how to handle this problem for anyone. I reached out to lots of people on here. All of them huge thanks, the best part is it added tools to my tool chest of what to do and act. Answers ranged from if it’s mild do nothing get better food drop vitamin c powder or pills 500 mg and some b12 and call it good. Have plan b ready like fish trap box etc. since I’m boise this is unheard of, I have ordered my own personal fish trap box. Since I’m generally super giving and loan anything, sorry boise your own your own. The idea of a hospital tank has chewed on me. Fact I have a 7 inch naso tang he needs a large tank. Even a 40 breeder or 75 will not be enough for him. I have five tangs and 9 other fish I may as well have a 125 with just piles and water with an established copper level running in conjunction. Yet before I go spend money out of my ceramic fish, I can’t even figure away to get my rocks apart. Lfs maintence who came out said we can get it out but will need a hammer and chisel and pound on them. Maybe I shouldn’t have used soooo much rock epoxy not to self for the 425. Which also no way in heck will I mix system water now, they will be stand alone.
4.) I did a lot of research and phone calls about kick ick and reef rally. Now at marine depot this is the god level of medicine lol, to fish shops in Seattle Portland San Fran Denver Diego (I have lots of contacts), they all said not worth the risk. Hence we have all this amazing technology yet we haven’t found or made anything to cure ick or velvet in a coral reef display (how sad and pathetic is that?) they place coral bans and fish bans etc to preserve the fish etc. well if they do go up in smoke who are they gonna turn to make new ones so they don’t go extinct? Us, and the hobby or natural world has really no way controlling ick.
Hence the new uv and ozone item, it may not destroy all of those little (word I can’t say), but I will slow them down. Especially if it’s a level 2 or better level 1 uv and not a standard uv-c which does kill virus’s parasites bacteria etc, except the ones we use can clear a sever tank in 24 hour period. A level 2 or one can clear any tank in their range in 2 hours. It also is able to kill the harder parasites and viruses. Yes 775 was honestly for some basic pvc pipe and light bulbs unions and gauge they are sure proud of it. Still makes me wonder, it’s for salt water but they use a metal base and tubes? Did they think about rust and metal leaching perhaps , or perhaps not we will see depends on where I place it since the bulb is 36 inch long.
5.) as of the moment keeping the stress down using much better food (dipping in garlic) so far has improved the fish. Now am I out of the woods yet, nope. I know now ick lives in my tank, I am hoping the free swimmmes die a painful death. But maybe there is some truth to in a realistic world where lucky (only time I will say this ever) me being sick I had eyes on my tank almost all week 24/7 I didnt sleep much but when I woke up always checked on them. Maybe the other luck was lol praying to god my fish don’t die, and not stressing them out. Maybe making them more comfortable saved them. I used two caps of garlic guard instead of one, add probiatic flake food with a much better frozen fish food that’s errrrr cheaper than the frozen I bought then. Weird my crude protein on the more expensive was only 7%. Yet this new one is 50%. Dropping in vitamins c and b12 really calmed fish down and much thanks to @jsker for that idea. Much thanks to @Lasse and @Lowell Lemon on ideas about the h202 and ozone and offering to send me theirs, I owe a life debt. Again I’m not out of the woods and this time I’m at least expecting this to blow up on me. But maybe not, hopefully the new uv and ozone combo helps a lot more sense it’s a level 1 uv. But for now as I heal it’s definitely time for a nap.
Here is an update of my current ick problem and maybe it will work maybe not but so far things have improved. So as sick as I have been I had to do some sole searching and kinda get my act together not only w me but my tank since they literally are my life.
As much as I hate nebulizer treatments, antibiotics and the dreaded prednisone (80mg a day for three days tapering down is no fun. So I just said nope on work and stayed home today, besides I have 297 hours of sick leave I may as well use it.
Secondly my ick problem in my tank.
1.) now I have done some amazing reading, you tube, forums anything I can access and read long enough before headaches kick in. In all the reading I have done it seems that all the info is great but also determines on the tank.
2.) with what I say it could be totally wrong and blow up on me and or too it worked for my tank can’t say it won’t come back or it’s history who knows.
3.) things I had to consider, yes my tank is a fairly mature tank it’s almost 2 months old, I feed really good frozen mysis, probiatic flake food and spinerula and also seaweed now and again. I also soak them in garlic every time since the start of my tank. I still use my uv steralizer 24/7 and since added a third only this time I’m changing things (once here). Starters it is a level A steralizer not just a clarifier, secondly it has an ozone apartus and bypass on top. Now I’m behind knowledge on this and where to get the ozone etc but I’m hoping to get there. Yes it’s not here but going with what I can. Will show pics of what I’m getting and more than likely will have to find away to make it fit in my sump which is best or find a way to suspend it in the stand and plumb it in. I’m going to run a separate dc pump just for that and have the water out put drop directly into the return section. The water or dc pump will sit in the same area as the protein skimmer. So this wasn’t per say cheap but hey worth it to me. For both of them it’s like 775 and then I ordered a current usa dc return pump (smallest one so I can ultimately control flow). The other two uv will stay and I ordered new bulbs for both of them even though both say bulbs are good, why risk it.
Now that’s it’s Friday and I noticed first signs of disease pretty certain it’s marine ick. Within 48 hours no other fish have shown signs are have been infected. The Lt tangs spots are gone (just means parasite fell off and they are making babies now) and the purple tang only has maybe 4-5 spots left.
Now there is a possibility the fish immune system fought it off. There is also the dreaded thought it comes back as a snow storm. Time will tell but, in four days no other fish has developed spots or flashed and all are really eating since I switched to the much better mysis.
We all know copper kills and the go to method not gonna say other wise. Yet I also think it depends solely on the tank. Ripping a mature reef down which will stress corals and fish even more is risky and in terms of being realistic I’m not certain of. Yes ideally catching each fish in a fish trap and throwing in copper is ideal and letting the tank fallow for 90 days. Yes it says 72 but why risk it? Another clear fact I have found is that marine velvet ick etc don’t just come in on fish. They come on snails, crabs, clams, anything wet. The fact we all accilmate new corals or crabs or snails, we are always at risk for transferring ick or velvet who know what else Into our tanks. Yes some have qt tanks but pretty hard to qt snails and crabs and corals in copper. So let’s say you have another tank, since they need a host that means to make sure your not getting any contaminated water one must wait min of 72 days. Just to add literally anything wet, which is honestly stupid.
So my thought and It may come out good or it may go bad we will see. All fish have drastically improved since monday (the two that were sick, and no other fish has shown signs or received any symptoms). In light of this, I strongly believe trying to catch fish adding stress to the tank isn’t really going to help. Not to mention, that unless I literally physically stop adding any corals or clean up crew etc I risk that small potential again. I did have my lfs order two cleaner shrimp, and cleaner wrasse for further use, see I’m alresdy possibly adding ick or velvet into my tank.
In light of this finding the stress factor wasn’t easy and I’m not certain I have found it. The Lt tang is kinda the boss and nobody picks on him at all. Yes a chromie May but he tail slaps them across the tank, and chases them non stop for a day. My purple tang is super shy and is best friends with my tommini tang who had one spot and it’s also gone. Those two are back being best friends and grazing all the rocks together. I’m positive this isn’t velvet because usually velvet if not immediately treated kills the entire tank in a four day span. They may even die while in the hospital tank.
So what have I learned from this whole set back of oh crap.
1.) my whole philosophy of not adding s new fish in fear of transferring ick or velvet now makes pretty much no sense. Yes it’s a much higher risk, but I didn’t add any new fish except my goby 9 months ago roughly, and all others were in after the tank cycled (in sections over three weeks).
2.) Ick and parasites can come in on anything wet, even the net I have used to catch my new fish. Not to mention he is wet from the water so again possible transfer. Yes they normally come out of copper tanks, but parasites can lay dormant.
3.) how to handle this problem for anyone. I reached out to lots of people on here. All of them huge thanks, the best part is it added tools to my tool chest of what to do and act. Answers ranged from if it’s mild do nothing get better food drop vitamin c powder or pills 500 mg and some b12 and call it good. Have plan b ready like fish trap box etc. since I’m boise this is unheard of, I have ordered my own personal fish trap box. Since I’m generally super giving and loan anything, sorry boise your own your own. The idea of a hospital tank has chewed on me. Fact I have a 7 inch naso tang he needs a large tank. Even a 40 breeder or 75 will not be enough for him. I have five tangs and 9 other fish I may as well have a 125 with just piles and water with an established copper level running in conjunction. Yet before I go spend money out of my ceramic fish, I can’t even figure away to get my rocks apart. Lfs maintence who came out said we can get it out but will need a hammer and chisel and pound on them. Maybe I shouldn’t have used soooo much rock epoxy not to self for the 425. Which also no way in heck will I mix system water now, they will be stand alone.
4.) I did a lot of research and phone calls about kick ick and reef rally. Now at marine depot this is the god level of medicine lol, to fish shops in Seattle Portland San Fran Denver Diego (I have lots of contacts), they all said not worth the risk. Hence we have all this amazing technology yet we haven’t found or made anything to cure ick or velvet in a coral reef display (how sad and pathetic is that?) they place coral bans and fish bans etc to preserve the fish etc. well if they do go up in smoke who are they gonna turn to make new ones so they don’t go extinct? Us, and the hobby or natural world has really no way controlling ick.
Hence the new uv and ozone item, it may not destroy all of those little (word I can’t say), but I will slow them down. Especially if it’s a level 2 or better level 1 uv and not a standard uv-c which does kill virus’s parasites bacteria etc, except the ones we use can clear a sever tank in 24 hour period. A level 2 or one can clear any tank in their range in 2 hours. It also is able to kill the harder parasites and viruses. Yes 775 was honestly for some basic pvc pipe and light bulbs unions and gauge they are sure proud of it. Still makes me wonder, it’s for salt water but they use a metal base and tubes? Did they think about rust and metal leaching perhaps , or perhaps not we will see
depends on where I place it since the bulb is 36 inch long. 5.) as of the moment keeping the stress down using much better food (dipping in garlic) so far has improved the fish. Now am I out of the woods yet, nope. I know now ick lives in my tank, I am hoping the free swimmmes die a painful death. But maybe there is some truth to in a realistic world where lucky (only time I will say this ever) me being sick I had eyes on my tank almost all week 24/7 I didnt sleep much but when I woke up always checked on them. Maybe the other luck was lol praying to god my fish don’t die, and not stressing them out. Maybe making them more comfortable saved them. I used two caps of garlic guard instead of one, add probiatic flake food with a much better frozen fish food that’s errrrr cheaper than the frozen I bought then. Weird my crude protein on the more expensive was only 7%. Yet this new one is 50%. Dropping in vitamins c and b12 really calmed fish down and much thanks to @jsker for that idea. Much thanks to @Lasse and @Lowell Lemon on ideas about the h202 and ozone and offering to send me theirs, I owe a life debt. Again I’m not out of the woods and this time I’m at least expecting this to blow up on me. But maybe not, hopefully the new uv and ozone combo helps a lot more sense it’s a level 1 uv. But for now as I heal it’s definitely time for a nap.
jsker
Reefing is all about the adventure
Hello,
Here is an update of my current ick problem and maybe it will work maybe not but so far things have improved. So as sick as I have been I had to do some sole searching and kinda get my act together not only w me but my tank since they literally are my life.
As much as I hate nebulizer treatments, antibiotics and the dreaded prednisone (80mg a day for three days tapering down is no fun. So I just said nope on work and stayed home today, besides I have 297 hours of sick leave I may as well use it.
Secondly my ick problem in my tank.
1.) now I have done some amazing reading, you tube, forums anything I can access and read long enough before headaches kick in. In all the reading I have done it seems that all the info is great but also determines on the tank.
2.) with what I say it could be totally wrong and blow up on me and or too it worked for my tank can’t say it won’t come back or it’s history who knows.
3.) things I had to consider, yes my tank is a fairly mature tank it’s almost 2 months old, I feed really good frozen mysis, probiatic flake food and spinerula and also seaweed now and again. I also soak them in garlic every time since the start of my tank. I still use my uv steralizer 24/7 and since added a third only this time I’m changing things (once here). Starters it is a level A steralizer not just a clarifier, secondly it has an ozone apartus and bypass on top. Now I’m behind knowledge on this and where to get the ozone etc but I’m hoping to get there. Yes it’s not here but going with what I can. Will show pics of what I’m getting and more than likely will have to find away to make it fit in my sump which is best or find a way to suspend it in the stand and plumb it in. I’m going to run a separate dc pump just for that and have the water out put drop directly into the return section. The water or dc pump will sit in the same area as the protein skimmer. So this wasn’t per say cheap but hey worth it to me. For both of them it’s like 775 and then I ordered a current usa dc return pump (smallest one so I can ultimately control flow). The other two uv will stay and I ordered new bulbs for both of them even though both say bulbs are good, why risk it.
Now that’s it’s Friday and I noticed first signs of disease pretty certain it’s marine ick. Within 48 hours no other fish have shown signs are have been infected. The Lt tangs spots are gone (just means parasite fell off and they are making babies now) and the purple tang only has maybe 4-5 spots left.
Now there is a possibility the fish immune system fought it off. There is also the dreaded thought it comes back as a snow storm. Time will tell but, in four days no other fish has developed spots or flashed and all are really eating since I switched to the much better mysis.
We all know copper kills and the go to method not gonna say other wise. Yet I also think it depends solely on the tank. Ripping a mature reef down which will stress corals and fish even more is risky and in terms of being realistic I’m not certain of. Yes ideally catching each fish in a fish trap and throwing in copper is ideal and letting the tank fallow for 90 days. Yes it says 72 but why risk it? Another clear fact I have found is that marine velvet ick etc don’t just come in on fish. They come on snails, crabs, clams, anything wet. The fact we all accilmate new corals or crabs or snails, we are always at risk for transferring ick or velvet who know what else Into our tanks. Yes some have qt tanks but pretty hard to qt snails and crabs and corals in copper. So let’s say you have another tank, since they need a host that means to make sure your not getting any contaminated water one must wait min of 72 days. Just to add literally anything wet, which is honestly stupid.
So my thought and It may come out good or it may go bad we will see. All fish have drastically improved since monday (the two that were sick, and no other fish has shown signs or received any symptoms). In light of this, I strongly believe trying to catch fish adding stress to the tank isn’t really going to help. Not to mention, that unless I literally physically stop adding any corals or clean up crew etc I risk that small potential again. I did have my lfs order two cleaner shrimp, and cleaner wrasse for further use, see I’m alresdy possibly adding ick or velvet into my tank.
In light of this finding the stress factor wasn’t easy and I’m not certain I have found it. The Lt tang is kinda the boss and nobody picks on him at all. Yes a chromie May but he tail slaps them across the tank, and chases them non stop for a day. My purple tang is super shy and is best friends with my tommini tang who had one spot and it’s also gone. Those two are back being best friends and grazing all the rocks together. I’m positive this isn’t velvet because usually velvet if not immediately treated kills the entire tank in a four day span. They may even die while in the hospital tank.
So what have I learned from this whole set back of oh crap.
1.) my whole philosophy of not adding s new fish in fear of transferring ick or velvet now makes pretty much no sense. Yes it’s a much higher risk, but I didn’t add any new fish except my goby 9 months ago roughly, and all others were in after the tank cycled (in sections over three weeks).
2.) Ick and parasites can come in on anything wet, even the net I have used to catch my new fish. Not to mention he is wet from the water so again possible transfer. Yes they normally come out of copper tanks, but parasites can lay dormant.
3.) how to handle this problem for anyone. I reached out to lots of people on here. All of them huge thanks, the best part is it added tools to my tool chest of what to do and act. Answers ranged from if it’s mild do nothing get better food drop vitamin c powder or pills 500 mg and some b12 and call it good. Have plan b ready like fish trap box etc. since I’m boise this is unheard of, I have ordered my own personal fish trap box. Since I’m generally super giving and loan anything, sorry boise your own your own. The idea of a hospital tank has chewed on me. Fact I have a 7 inch naso tang he needs a large tank. Even a 40 breeder or 75 will not be enough for him. I have five tangs and 9 other fish I may as well have a 125 with just piles and water with an established copper level running in conjunction. Yet before I go spend money out of my ceramic fish, I can’t even figure away to get my rocks apart. Lfs maintence who came out said we can get it out but will need a hammer and chisel and pound on them. Maybe I shouldn’t have used soooo much rock epoxy not to self for the 425. Which also no way in heck will I mix system water now, they will be stand alone.
4.) I did a lot of research and phone calls about kick ick and reef rally. Now at marine depot this is the god level of medicine lol, to fish shops in Seattle Portland San Fran Denver Diego (I have lots of contacts), they all said not worth the risk. Hence we have all this amazing technology yet we haven’t found or made anything to cure ick or velvet in a coral reef display (how sad and pathetic is that?) they place coral bans and fish bans etc to preserve the fish etc. well if they do go up in smoke who are they gonna turn to make new ones so they don’t go extinct? Us, and the hobby or natural world has really no way controlling ick.
Hence the new uv and ozone item, it may not destroy all of those little (word I can’t say), but I will slow them down. Especially if it’s a level 2 or better level 1 uv and not a standard uv-c which does kill virus’s parasites bacteria etc, except the ones we use can clear a sever tank in 24 hour period. A level 2 or one can clear any tank in their range in 2 hours. It also is able to kill the harder parasites and viruses. Yes 775 was honestly for some basic pvc pipe and light bulbs unions and gauge they are sure proud of it. Still makes me wonder, it’s for salt water but they use a metal base and tubes? Did they think about rust and metal leaching perhaps , or perhaps not we will see
5.) as of the moment keeping the stress down using much better food (dipping in garlic) so far has improved the fish. Now am I out of the woods yet, nope. I know now ick lives in my tank, I am hoping the free swimmmes die a painful death. But maybe there is some truth to in a realistic world where lucky (only time I will say this ever) me being sick I had eyes on my tank almost all week 24/7 I didnt sleep much but when I woke up always checked on them. Maybe the other luck was lol praying to god my fish don’t die, and not stressing them out. Maybe making them more comfortable saved them. I used two caps of garlic guard instead of one, add probiatic flake food with a much better frozen fish food that’s errrrr cheaper than the frozen I bought then. Weird my crude protein on the more expensive was only 7%. Yet this new one is 50%. Dropping in vitamins c and b12 really calmed fish down and much thanks to @jsker for that idea. Much thanks to @Lasse and @Lowell Lemon on ideas about the h202 and ozone and offering to send me theirs, I owe a life debt. Again I’m not out of the woods and this time I’m at least expecting this to blow up on me. But maybe not, hopefully the new uv and ozone combo helps a lot more sense it’s a level 1 uv. But for now as I heal it’s definitely time for a nap.[/QUOTE
This is some great research and is valuable going forward for others to read. Also a great plan moving forward.
I am also happy the here that you are taking some time to get well.
Good news - both that your feeling better and that the fish looks like they manage this outbreak.
By the way – I think that your problem can be over for the moment. The reason is because no new fish has been sick. Is not likely that just all parasites had hatched exactly the same day and only infected 2 fish. It was not like 1 parasite – wait for x days and when much more infested fish. It was many parasites already day 1 on the fish showing symptoms.
When you now get these better equipment – take it easy if it not is critical. Do not start everything directly. I would start with the new UV-C and wait with the ozone till I need it. With not critical I mean – no sign of disease
I would not combine ozone and peroxide - they act the same way and ozone is a powerful catalyst of peroxide breakdown. However - you can combine UV-C with ozone or peroxide but if it is TMC equipment - the tubes will give a low dose of ozone too. That type of mercury/amalgam tubes give a top around 180 nm too, this is the ozone production wavelength. If you do that combination UV-C and ozone – start with a lower dose of ozone than normally will be recommended
Sincerely Lasse
You mean 2 years I supose ?
In the freshwater world of African cichlids - it is often the dominate male that first get sign of African bloat. This disease is connected to stress because the parasite (a flagellate) is always present. Seems to contradict everything but – honestly – can you think of something more stressful than to be the dominate A-male, always defending it status and rang, always try to mate with females of all sorts and always need of show up all its beauty – I can´t
By the way – I think that your problem can be over for the moment. The reason is because no new fish has been sick. Is not likely that just all parasites had hatched exactly the same day and only infected 2 fish. It was not like 1 parasite – wait for x days and when much more infested fish. It was many parasites already day 1 on the fish showing symptoms.
When you now get these better equipment – take it easy if it not is critical. Do not start everything directly. I would start with the new UV-C and wait with the ozone till I need it. With not critical I mean – no sign of disease
I would not combine ozone and peroxide - they act the same way and ozone is a powerful catalyst of peroxide breakdown. However - you can combine UV-C with ozone or peroxide but if it is TMC equipment - the tubes will give a low dose of ozone too. That type of mercury/amalgam tubes give a top around 180 nm too, this is the ozone production wavelength. If you do that combination UV-C and ozone – start with a lower dose of ozone than normally will be recommended
Sincerely Lasse
Last edited:
OP
OP
Sarah24!
2500 Club Member
Hello,
Lol yes 2 years almost more like 18-19 months but close enough. So funny fact is that even at marine depot their most expensive uv steralizer over 1500 is still the same as what I have now for 200 dollars. I went to water solutions and ordered their 80 watt uv and ozone system. It is a level 1 uv so grade A and now I have to find the ozone generator but that should be easier. Figuring how it will go into my sump is another problem. Here are some pics of what it will or should look like.
It’s amazing on how even calling marine depot they had no idea there was a level 1 or 2 uv just a uvc which is basic clarifier. Not to mention, they said you can make any uvc steralizer the same as a 1 or 2 simply by slowing the flow down. That’s not true at all, not to menton (and I’m not claiming to be even a novest or beginner on this subject) but there is soooo much misleading and contradicting info on ick and marine velvet that it makes my head hurt.
In some case of let’s be extremely realistic, if someone has a 55 or 75 with min rock work, yes it would be hard to drain water into a rubber tub and set the sections in there and put them back once you catch the fish. Granted w velvet you need a constant copper level no building up or it will be too late. I have heard ick needs to start low and build up and others say same level as velvet. That’s not too unrealistic and letting the tank go fallow and use copper. Now for those who have 200 plus gallon tanks and glue rocks together and all the corals have encrusted and when a lfs maintenance team says we will need a hammer and bar in a glass tank. That’s simply unrealistic when again luckily so far just the two had it and are getting better.
Maybe the actual trick to help with ick is to have some prevents prior and not ever stop them. Yes it may help that I use two crappy uv steralizers (they are crappy now that I know what they really are), I also used garlic guard since day one and up it to two caps as soon as I saw the break out.
Now food I had to learn on, I thought they had a great source of food errr so I thought. Was wrong on that one when I can get frozen mysis shrimp with 50% crude protein as compared to 7% and it’s more expensive. So now I mix that with some flake food which has probiatic in it. I’m hoping this increases their immune system and making them less stress.
I again live in Boise which is 50 years behind modern times 200 for saltwater tanks. I have since ordered a fish trap and placed the order for the new uv. They only work by email so not sure how this will pan out but so far looks good. I have to wait for all my lfs to get in more cleaner wrasses and cleaner shrimp. You would think they stock up on those, and petco has some cleaner shrimp (enough said I will not trust there water source).
Also a fancy tidbit (see what happens when I am told to stay home when sick I read way way way too much). But it’s been said which I’ll find my source here shortly, that ick and velvet can transfer on anything wet literally anything wet. Let’s think about this, all snails crabs corals live rock live sand you name it. It can also have a dormant stage as well, and yes it can’t survive on fish with copper but can go dormant (oh where is my source I’ll post it promise), if copper levels are not at proper levels which I think we already know. Since we can’t dip inverts in copper, snails etc crabs shrimp, is this maybe the reason we simply can’t eradicate ick etc? It’s interesting enough for me to keep reading on it. I also think but can’t probe because this has happened once in my experience and it does suck and stressed me out badly. I love my tank and everything in it but maybe the more the mature the tank is and if preventives have been used since day one fish have a fighting chance. Now I can’t say that with velvet, and I have no experience with it. But it would be nice to see companies create medicine that will be safe to inverts and fish but kill viruses and parasites. For example hiv and aides virus, we haven’t found a cure yet but we have found antiviral drugs that definitely slow it down to the point it won’t spread as long as the person who has the virus never stops using it. Ina recent study posted in a medical journal they have found a case study where there are now antiviral drugs and they used groups of (males and males, males females and females w females all spectrum). One was actually has aides the other does not. After two years those who took part the individual’s who were negative stayed negative. The ones who are positive we’re still positive but showed immune growth and that the virus had decreased. Let’s hope it doesn’t take another 30 years to find something to get rid of ick and velvet since they probably are not as complex as the HIV virus.
Lol yes 2 years almost more like 18-19 months but close enough. So funny fact is that even at marine depot their most expensive uv steralizer over 1500 is still the same as what I have now for 200 dollars. I went to water solutions and ordered their 80 watt uv and ozone system. It is a level 1 uv so grade A and now I have to find the ozone generator but that should be easier. Figuring how it will go into my sump is another problem. Here are some pics of what it will or should look like.
It’s amazing on how even calling marine depot they had no idea there was a level 1 or 2 uv just a uvc which is basic clarifier. Not to mention, they said you can make any uvc steralizer the same as a 1 or 2 simply by slowing the flow down. That’s not true at all, not to menton (and I’m not claiming to be even a novest or beginner on this subject) but there is soooo much misleading and contradicting info on ick and marine velvet that it makes my head hurt.
In some case of let’s be extremely realistic, if someone has a 55 or 75 with min rock work, yes it would be hard to drain water into a rubber tub and set the sections in there and put them back once you catch the fish. Granted w velvet you need a constant copper level no building up or it will be too late. I have heard ick needs to start low and build up and others say same level as velvet. That’s not too unrealistic and letting the tank go fallow and use copper. Now for those who have 200 plus gallon tanks and glue rocks together and all the corals have encrusted and when a lfs maintenance team says we will need a hammer and bar in a glass tank. That’s simply unrealistic when again luckily so far just the two had it and are getting better.
Maybe the actual trick to help with ick is to have some prevents prior and not ever stop them. Yes it may help that I use two crappy uv steralizers (they are crappy now that I know what they really are), I also used garlic guard since day one and up it to two caps as soon as I saw the break out.
Now food I had to learn on, I thought they had a great source of food errr so I thought. Was wrong on that one when I can get frozen mysis shrimp with 50% crude protein as compared to 7% and it’s more expensive. So now I mix that with some flake food which has probiatic in it. I’m hoping this increases their immune system and making them less stress.
I again live in Boise which is 50 years behind modern times 200 for saltwater tanks. I have since ordered a fish trap and placed the order for the new uv. They only work by email so not sure how this will pan out but so far looks good. I have to wait for all my lfs to get in more cleaner wrasses and cleaner shrimp. You would think they stock up on those, and petco has some cleaner shrimp (enough said I will not trust there water source).
Also a fancy tidbit (see what happens when I am told to stay home when sick I read way way way too much). But it’s been said which I’ll find my source here shortly, that ick and velvet can transfer on anything wet literally anything wet. Let’s think about this, all snails crabs corals live rock live sand you name it. It can also have a dormant stage as well, and yes it can’t survive on fish with copper but can go dormant (oh where is my source I’ll post it promise), if copper levels are not at proper levels which I think we already know. Since we can’t dip inverts in copper, snails etc crabs shrimp, is this maybe the reason we simply can’t eradicate ick etc? It’s interesting enough for me to keep reading on it. I also think but can’t probe because this has happened once in my experience and it does suck and stressed me out badly. I love my tank and everything in it but maybe the more the mature the tank is and if preventives have been used since day one fish have a fighting chance. Now I can’t say that with velvet, and I have no experience with it. But it would be nice to see companies create medicine that will be safe to inverts and fish but kill viruses and parasites. For example hiv and aides virus, we haven’t found a cure yet but we have found antiviral drugs that definitely slow it down to the point it won’t spread as long as the person who has the virus never stops using it. Ina recent study posted in a medical journal they have found a case study where there are now antiviral drugs and they used groups of (males and males, males females and females w females all spectrum). One was actually has aides the other does not. After two years those who took part the individual’s who were negative stayed negative. The ones who are positive we’re still positive but showed immune growth and that the virus had decreased. Let’s hope it doesn’t take another 30 years to find something to get rid of ick and velvet since they probably are not as complex as the HIV virus.
OP
OP
Sarah24!
2500 Club Member
Hello,
Oh did I mention that as I went to my lfs they tried to sell me a large powder blue tang. Yet I was in a panic when I told them I was beginning an ick break out. Anyone find that odd or err humorous lol:
Oh did I mention that as I went to my lfs they tried to sell me a large powder blue tang. Yet I was in a panic when I told them I was beginning an ick break out. Anyone find that odd or err humorous lol:
crusso1993
7500 Club Member
Hemmdog
10K Club member
You sure that uv sterilizer is reef safe? That looks like something they would use for a large exhibit at an aquarium. Like 100,000 gals large. There’s a reason people use low flow and only uv-c for reef tanks.Hello,
Lol yes 2 years almost more like 18-19 months but close enough. So funny fact is that even at marine depot their most expensive uv steralizer over 1500 is still the same as what I have now for 200 dollars. I went to water solutions and ordered their 80 watt uv and ozone system. It is a level 1 uv so grade A and now I have to find the ozone generator but that should be easier. Figuring how it will go into my sump is another problem. Here are some pics of what it will or should look like.
It’s amazing on how even calling marine depot they had no idea there was a level 1 or 2 uv just a uvc which is basic clarifier. Not to mention, they said you can make any uvc steralizer the same as a 1 or 2 simply by slowing the flow down. That’s not true at all, not to menton (and I’m not claiming to be even a novest or beginner on this subject) but there is soooo much misleading and contradicting info on ick and marine velvet that it makes my head hurt.
In some case of let’s be extremely realistic, if someone has a 55 or 75 with min rock work, yes it would be hard to drain water into a rubber tub and set the sections in there and put them back once you catch the fish. Granted w velvet you need a constant copper level no building up or it will be too late. I have heard ick needs to start low and build up and others say same level as velvet. That’s not too unrealistic and letting the tank go fallow and use copper. Now for those who have 200 plus gallon tanks and glue rocks together and all the corals have encrusted and when a lfs maintenance team says we will need a hammer and bar in a glass tank. That’s simply unrealistic when again luckily so far just the two had it and are getting better.
Maybe the actual trick to help with ick is to have some prevents prior and not ever stop them. Yes it may help that I use two crappy uv steralizers (they are crappy now that I know what they really are), I also used garlic guard since day one and up it to two caps as soon as I saw the break out.
Now food I had to learn on, I thought they had a great source of food errr so I thought. Was wrong on that one when I can get frozen mysis shrimp with 50% crude protein as compared to 7% and it’s more expensive. So now I mix that with some flake food which has probiatic in it. I’m hoping this increases their immune system and making them less stress.
I again live in Boise which is 50 years behind modern times 200 for saltwater tanks. I have since ordered a fish trap and placed the order for the new uv. They only work by email so not sure how this will pan out but so far looks good. I have to wait for all my lfs to get in more cleaner wrasses and cleaner shrimp. You would think they stock up on those, and petco has some cleaner shrimp (enough said I will not trust there water source).
Also a fancy tidbit (see what happens when I am told to stay home when sick I read way way way too much). But it’s been said which I’ll find my source here shortly, that ick and velvet can transfer on anything wet literally anything wet. Let’s think about this, all snails crabs corals live rock live sand you name it. It can also have a dormant stage as well, and yes it can’t survive on fish with copper but can go dormant (oh where is my source I’ll post it promise), if copper levels are not at proper levels which I think we already know. Since we can’t dip inverts in copper, snails etc crabs shrimp, is this maybe the reason we simply can’t eradicate ick etc? It’s interesting enough for me to keep reading on it. I also think but can’t probe because this has happened once in my experience and it does suck and stressed me out badly. I love my tank and everything in it but maybe the more the mature the tank is and if preventives have been used since day one fish have a fighting chance. Now I can’t say that with velvet, and I have no experience with it. But it would be nice to see companies create medicine that will be safe to inverts and fish but kill viruses and parasites. For example hiv and aides virus, we haven’t found a cure yet but we have found antiviral drugs that definitely slow it down to the point it won’t spread as long as the person who has the virus never stops using it. Ina recent study posted in a medical journal they have found a case study where there are now antiviral drugs and they used groups of (males and males, males females and females w females all spectrum). One was actually has aides the other does not. After two years those who took part the individual’s who were negative stayed negative. The ones who are positive we’re still positive but showed immune growth and that the virus had decreased. Let’s hope it doesn’t take another 30 years to find something to get rid of ick and velvet since they probably are not as complex as the HIV virus.
OP
OP
Sarah24!
2500 Club Member
Yeah, just based on this, I don't think I'd be going back there anymore.
Hello,
It’s the one I dislike the most and the same three guys that work there forever always seem to ask me out or try and hug me etc. very disturbing but was in panic mode because I was having an ick break out and the other two didn’t have fish traps and or cleaner wrasse or cleaner shrimp. They didn’t either but was trying to get some in my tank ASAP. Still have to wait 2 weeks but I don’t trust any water source now at all. It really has made me nervous to add anything wet to my tank in fear of ick or velvet. Even my coral swapping days at the lfs shop I like and buying new corals etc I may take a very different approach.
Even acclimating corals into my tank will be much different. I may simply drain water from my tank into a bucket, and accilmate them outside my tank. Once done I can rinse in a coral dip, then fresh salt water set aside and hope there is nothing on it or anything that’s going to harm my ocean.
crusso1993
7500 Club Member
LFS dude - "Hey, want to go out and grab some drinks with me?"
You - "No, thank you."
LFS dude - "Well, then how about a hug?"
Creepy...
Hemmdog
10K Club member
Lololol!
OP
OP
Sarah24!
2500 Club Member
It’s only 80 watt uv and yes it’s a level one which is better than uvc since this will definitely kill viruses bacteria and parasites. The ozone is just an option that I will only use when needed. It’s 30 inches long and from their email to me it’s designed for 250 gallons. I would use a separate smaller dc current usa return pump, and turn the flow down where it’s optimal for parasites viruses etc cyano. Then I will have it plumb directly into my return chamber. My protein skimmer which is the eshopps s300 isn’t designed for ozone which will harm some plastics. With that said I have to figure a good control system and way to implement it precisely. I don’t have an apex so that’s out, but there are other controllers I can use specially for that. Finding an ozone generator has been errr easy and again like @Lasse it’s not something I’d introduce right away. I know I have 200 gallons of uvc now but that’s just water clarification and it will kill some bacteria and some viruses. I can’t say it will kill ick or velvet, or brook or flukes etc. those are normally used with level A or B uv steralizers.
This one maybe be strong enough I won’t need the other two, (bonus). But I really had to up my game plan because of this ick out break. Because getting my fish out and being honest just isn’t realistic. I can’t move rocks with out a hammer and I don’t wanna damage the coral either and I have two that are doing much much better since Monday and all the others after four days show zero signs darkness white dots etc. activity is high and feeding is crazy and vitamin c does have some great advantages. @jsker i would say and @Lasse and @Lowell Lemon im in a life debt. They understood my issue and they gave me extremely helpful ideas to work the problem and solve it. Yes I’m not out of the woods yet, but as trees surround me, I can see roof tops barely. It’s very easy that yes they drop the white dots and they make more and cycle starts, if so hopefully they are not hit with a snow storm and or they have now even more immunity built up.
