Uronema in DT: Next Steps?

[FFFishy]

I introduced Uronema into my DT. I acquired a trio of 3 female Fijian Anthias from a well-respected source, kept them in a QT for 4 weeks of observation (no meds), then moved them to my DT. First Anthias (smallest) died after 4 weeks. I think the larger two prevented the smallest from feeding. One week later, in a 48 hour period, I lost the other two Anthias (certainly looked like they had Uronema), Yellow Eye Kole Tang, Blue Spot Jawfish, and an Ocellaris Clown that has been with us for 5+ years.

At this point, the remaining fish (One Spot Foxface, Ocellaris Clown, 2x Kaudern's Cardinals, Mystery Wrasse, Coral Beauty Angel, Diamond Goby) have been moved to a 20G QT with Seachem Metroplex in the water. These fish are not showing any symptoms of Uronema at this time.

I've read numerous posts by @Humblefish and @4FordFamily . I believe I know how to manage the QT situation. Of course, any help would be greatly appreciated.

For me, the real puzzle is what to do with my DT. It's a RedSea 450, so about 110 gal total volume. I've got several Shrimp, Snails, a few hermits, several soft corals, and a pile of rock. I had hoped to move some of this rock into my next tank, currently under construction. That seems like a bad idea now. I will be keeping this tank, as well as the new one. I'd really like to know that this tank is disease free. I understand that the sure-fire way to be disease free means tear it down, bleach everything, etc. What about the soft corals, Shrimp, Snails?

What about this idea: Remove the corals, Shrimp, Snails; then run a high (double?) does of Metroplex for 2 weeks. After that, send a sample of water (not sure where) to be tested for Uronema.

Thank You for any help / suggestions.
#reefsqaud

 

[coralkurd]

Following. Have the same issue and would like to know what others suggest!

 

[Gareth elliott]

I dont know what metro at full potency at treatment timeframe would do to corals. Aslo depending on display size can get really expensive.
metronidazole works as a dna disrupter on lower lifeforms, while safe on fish, could cause some issues with the dinoflagellate symbyotes inside the coral.
Hard corals ime are the most impacted by dna drugs. My experience was with clindamyicin not metro, while my corals recovered they did bleach. My soft corals, were not effected by treatment of 12mg per gallon. Different drug of course.

 

[Tamberav]

I wonder what effect peroxide dosing would have on uronema in a DT? I have heard of some doing it for other diseases.

SPS will be more sensitive to peroxide then other corals ofc and I am guessing a fuge or algae would take a hit.

It seems to be there were trials done using peroxide that were effective.

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/3b1f/f3114f296ba612cb1235c64827bd22e0ffd0.pdf

 

[4FordFamily]

As far as I know your choices are to nuke everything and start with new everything or just carry on. IME uronema most impacts fish that are new or weak, chromis, anthias, and some angels and rare wrasse. Healthy established fish seem unaffected and with uronema so difficult to remove I have to assume most of our tanks already have it from fish, rock, frags, inverts, etc.

 

[Big G]

I introduced Uronema into my DT. I acquired a trio of 3 female Fijian Anthias from a well-respected source, kept them in a QT for 4 weeks of observation (no meds), then moved them to my DT. First Anthias (smallest) died after 4 weeks. I think the larger two prevented the smallest from feeding. One week later, in a 48 hour period, I lost the other two Anthias (certainly looked like they had Uronema), Yellow Eye Kole Tang, Blue Spot Jawfish, and an Ocellaris Clown that has been with us for 5+ years.

At this point, the remaining fish (One Spot Foxface, Ocellaris Clown, 2x Kaudern's Cardinals, Mystery Wrasse, Coral Beauty Angel, Diamond Goby) have been moved to a 20G QT with Seachem Metroplex in the water. These fish are not showing any symptoms of Uronema at this time.

I've read numerous posts by @Humblefish and @4FordFamily . I believe I know how to manage the QT situation. Of course, any help would be greatly appreciated.

For me, the real puzzle is what to do with my DT. It's a RedSea 450, so about 110 gal total volume. I've got several Shrimp, Snails, a few hermits, several soft corals, and a pile of rock. I had hoped to move some of this rock into my next tank, currently under construction. That seems like a bad idea now. I will be keeping this tank, as well as the new one. I'd really like to know that this tank is disease free. I understand that the sure-fire way to be disease free means tear it down, bleach everything, etc. What about the soft corals, Shrimp, Snails?

What about this idea: Remove the corals, Shrimp, Snails; then run a high (double?) does of Metroplex for 2 weeks. After that, send a sample of water (not sure where) to be tested for Uronema.

Thank You for any help / suggestions.
#reefsqaud

Humblefish has done some experimental work with hydrogen peroxide. In this link he discusses using it to remove parasites from "some" corals. Doing the TTM with H2O2 would be like an extended "dipping" session of sorts to work out all of the parasites from the water and on the surfaces of the corals.
The key would be to place the corals into a sterile tank and then do the "Black Molly Test" to see if the process worked.

Hybrid TTM to treat all parasites!

10/9/2022: Jay Hemdal and the current Fish Medic staff are suggesting that people find other treatments rather than TTM. It has some substantial drawbacks: “Tank chasing” method (Tank Transfer Method - TTM) A mostly theoretical method for treating Cryptocaryon infections takes advantage of...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[jmoney7]

As far as I know your choices are to nuke everything and start with new everything or just carry on. IME uronema most impacts fish that are new or weak, chromis, anthias, and some angels and rare wrasse. Healthy established fish seem unaffected and with uronema so difficult to remove I have to assume most of our tanks already have it from fish, rock, frags, inverts, etc.

Yes I’m dealing with this now and from my understanding it is In everything from lfs. That it is very widespread in the hobby and maybe a better way to add fish is just to treat them like they are going to get it with metro.

 

[SoFlo Reef]

I second not nuking the tank, and just moving on. From the studies I’ve seen, uronema can be isolated from virtually every marine aquarium if you look hard enough. I know for a fact I have it in my display (from chromis), and beyond the initial chromis deaths it has not caused any issues, including with other chromis that I got healthy prior to introduction. It would be surprising if it indeed took out a tang, jawfish, and clown. Did they show the textbook red sores as well?

In my experience uronema is not much of an issue other than with new introductions with weakened immune systems (specifically anthias, wrasse and chromis). I have had good luck with tea tree oil baths - you can find details on humblefish’s website. For all incoming chromis and anthias, I do a tea tree oil bath into a QT dosed with formalin for a week, then another tea tree oil bath on the transfer out. My sample size isn’t huge but thus far I’ve had no losses other than a few chromis that appeared in bad shape on arrival.

 

[JGT]

Yes, and my understanding is that it’s not contagious. Fish get it or they don’t. Time to bring in the doc @Jay Hemdal for a consult.

 

[jmoney7]

I second not nuking the tank, and just moving on. From the studies I’ve seen, uronema can be isolated from virtually every marine aquarium if you look hard enough. I know for a fact I have it in my display (from chromis), and beyond the initial chromis deaths it has not caused any issues, including with other chromis that I got healthy prior to introduction. It would be surprising if it indeed took out a tang, jawfish, and clown. Did they show the textbook red sores as well?

In my experience uronema is not much of an issue other than with new introductions with weakened immune systems (specifically anthias, wrasse and chromis). I have had good luck with tea tree oil baths - you can find details on humblefish’s website. For all incoming chromis and anthias, I do a tea tree oil bath into a QT dosed with formalin for a week, then another tea tree oil bath on the transfer out. My sample size isn’t huge but thus far I’ve had no losses other than a few chromis that appeared in bad shape on arrival.

I’m looking at adding a melanarus wrasse. I know uronema is in my tank can I do anything to prevent wrasse from getting it on intitial addition.

 

[SoFlo Reef]

I’m looking at adding a melanarus wrasse. I know uronema is in my tank can I do anything to prevent wrasse from getting it on intitial addition.

Just make sure it’s healthy. If you are going to QT him, especially in copper or any other medication, don’t put him directly into the DT. Wait at least two weeks in no medication with heavy feeding to make sure his immune system isn’t suppressed. I would also buy locally if you can, and make sure it is eating prior to purchase. As long as he is eating well and coming from a non-medicated tank you should have no problems. I have a melanurus wrasse in my tank with uronema and he has never had any issues.

Also, be sure to include a container full of sand in the QT (if you do one). They need to be able to bury themselves and not having the ability to do so will stress them out.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I introduced Uronema into my DT. I acquired a trio of 3 female Fijian Anthias from a well-respected source, kept them in a QT for 4 weeks of observation (no meds), then moved them to my DT. First Anthias (smallest) died after 4 weeks. I think the larger two prevented the smallest from feeding. One week later, in a 48 hour period, I lost the other two Anthias (certainly looked like they had Uronema), Yellow Eye Kole Tang, Blue Spot Jawfish, and an Ocellaris Clown that has been with us for 5+ years.

At this point, the remaining fish (One Spot Foxface, Ocellaris Clown, 2x Kaudern's Cardinals, Mystery Wrasse, Coral Beauty Angel, Diamond Goby) have been moved to a 20G QT with Seachem Metroplex in the water. These fish are not showing any symptoms of Uronema at this time.

I've read numerous posts by @Humblefish and @4FordFamily . I believe I know how to manage the QT situation. Of course, any help would be greatly appreciated.

For me, the real puzzle is what to do with my DT. It's a RedSea 450, so about 110 gal total volume. I've got several Shrimp, Snails, a few hermits, several soft corals, and a pile of rock. I had hoped to move some of this rock into my next tank, currently under construction. That seems like a bad idea now. I will be keeping this tank, as well as the new one. I'd really like to know that this tank is disease free. I understand that the sure-fire way to be disease free means tear it down, bleach everything, etc. What about the soft corals, Shrimp, Snails?

What about this idea: Remove the corals, Shrimp, Snails; then run a high (double?) does of Metroplex for 2 weeks. After that, send a sample of water (not sure where) to be tested for Uronema.

Thank You for any help / suggestions.
#reefsqaud

Uronema is a ubiquitous protozoan, it can be found in most mature marine aquariums. Normally, it feeds on bacteria. The longer an aquarium is established, the more common it is to find it. Some sampling of newer aquariums has shown a presence of 25% and higher. Older aquariums get closer to hitting 100%

It is the inter-cellular form that is the killer of newly acquired fish. Nobody knows how these infections get started, but it is something in the supply chain. Despite what you will read - there is NO treatment for the inter-cellular form. By the time you see the external lesion from this, the internal damage is already fatally injured the fish. While many fish in a group may show this issue, I've only seen it spread to other, long term captives once.

I did some work that shows that chloroquine works to reduce/elminate the free living form, but to what benefit?

The observational quarantine may have let some other issues get through, but Uronema really isn't a concern.

Here is an article I wrote about a decade ago, when I was experimenting with chloroquine, and then updated it here:

Uronema / Red Band Disease - Hemdal

Red Band Syndrome in Marine Fishes: Caused by the Protozoan; Uronema sp. Jay Hemdal Introduction: This moderately common disease of certain species of marine fish is so often misdiagnosed that most aquarists apply incorrect treatment methods...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

 

[jmoney7]

Just make sure it’s healthy. If you are going to QT him, especially in copper or any other medication, don’t put him directly into the DT. Wait at least two weeks in no medication with heavy feeding to make sure his immune system isn’t suppressed. I would also buy locally if you can, and make sure it is eating prior to purchase. As long as he is eating well and coming from a non-medicated tank you should have no problems. I have a melanurus wrasse in my tank with uronema and he has never had any issues.

Also, be sure to include a container full of sand in the QT (if you do one). They need to be able to bury themselves and not having the ability to do so will stress them out.

How do I know if he’s been eating at the store before purchase?

 

[jmoney7]

Also with my tank I have 2 clowns and a chalk bass both look healthy but have been in there while the chromis have died off due to uronema. Should I treat them with metro bonded with focus in their food or should they be ok since they have not shown any signs of it thus far?

 

[jmoney7]

Just make sure it’s healthy. If you are going to QT him, especially in copper or any other medication, don’t put him directly into the DT. Wait at least two weeks in no medication with heavy feeding to make sure his immune system isn’t suppressed. I would also buy locally if you can, and make sure it is eating prior to purchase. As long as he is eating well and coming from a non-medicated tank you should have no problems. I have a melanurus wrasse in my tank with uronema and he has never had any issues.

Also, be sure to include a container full of sand in the QT (if you do one). They need to be able to bury themselves and not having the ability to do so will stress them out.

So I’m guessing your saying medications could weaken their immune system so maybe it would be worse to try to treat my clowns and chalk bass that may not even have it.

 

[SoFlo Reef]

How do I know if he’s been eating at the store before purchase?

You can ask the store, they should have no problem feeding it in front of you. Just be sure you buy one that is eating and preferably has been at the LFS for at least a week or two. Regarding the other fish, if they are healthy and not showing symptoms you don’t need to do anything. How long has it been since the chromis died? I would wait a bit (at least a few weeks) before adding the melanurus wrasse, but as long as it is healthy you shouldn’t have a problem

 

[jmoney7]

It’s been a few days so far. Thank you for the tips! I have been scouring the internet and you have given me the best advice thus far! I bought those chromis only a day after they have been delivered.

 

[jmoney7]

Also should I treat the fish that are in my tank like they have it or just leave them alone?

 

[SoFlo Reef]

It’s been a few days so far. Thank you for the tips! I have been scouring the internet and you have given me the best advice thus far! I bought those chromis only a day after they have been delivered.

No problem, happy to help. I would not do anything with the other fish unless they show symptoms. As long as they continue to look healthy leave them alone. While you wait to add the melanurus wrasse, it may also be worth dosing peroxide. Probably unnecessary but it can in theory help reduce uronema. You can dose it at 1-2 mL/10 gallons daily.

OP, apologies for the thread hijack. Thinking more about this and reading Jay’s response I am curious if you kept any of the established fish that succumbed to the disease and could confirm uronema under a microscope? Like Jay mentioned, my suspicion would be that it may have been something else that killed the other fish. In all of my tanks I have never seen uronema kill anything other than chromis, anthias, wrasse, or angels and almost always recent additions at that. If it was indeed uronema, my advice would be the same as above - to move on. If it is something else, however, it would likely warrant a full quarantine and fallow period.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Also should I treat the fish that are in my tank like they have it or just leave them alone?

You may have missed my post from 6:32 yesterday. What happened was that you responded to an old thread from 2020. Not seeing that, I responded to the thread itself. You should look back and read my post.