Uronema Marinum

[Brian Kennedy]

Is this Uronema Marinum? Two chromis. two oscillaris clowns and starry blenny were TTM'd to a new 120g DT about 2 weeks ago due to ich. One chromis died two days after going into the new DT from what looks to be the same thing.

 

[ca1ore]

Given that chromis are highly susceptible, it’s probably uronema. Usually progresses from discoloration to an open sore. Fish is a goner at that point. I’ve had moderate success treating it with proper CP.

 

[Brian Kennedy]

Do I need to drain and bleach the tank and start over?

 

[Mjrenz]

That definitely looks like uronema, the only way to get rid of it would be to tear the tank down and completly sanitize and dry everything. Chromis are usually the most susceptible to it, you could just avoid having them in your tank, most other fish will be able to fight it off with a healthy immune system.

 

[Mjrenz]

A freshwater dip would help provide some temporary relief and treatment could be done with cp or metronidazole. He won't be able to return to that tank unless it's completly sanitized though

 

[Wildreefs]

A freshwater dip would help provide some temporary relief and treatment could be done with cp or metronidazole. He won't be able to return to that tank unless it's completly sanitized though

I’m sorry but that is terrible advice . Lfs encounter visible uronema all the time, and if they sanitized and bleached there system every time, they wouldn’t be in business.

I often see schools if chromis exhibiting uro, with orhernfish in be system , and none are effected. I think it is in all systems, and if every time it is sought, people bleached and restarted , I really question this hobby

 

[Mjrenz]

I’m sorry but that is terrible advice . Lfs encounter visible uronema all the time, and if they sanitized and bleached there system every time, they wouldn’t be in business.

I often see schools if chromis exhibiting uro, with orhernfish in be system , and none are effected. I think it is in all systems, and if every time it is sought, people bleached and restarted , I really question this hobby

I wasn't saying that it should be done, just that it's the only way to get rid of it. Uronema is a parasite that can live without a host and cannot be starved out of the system.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/uronema-marinum.247940/

 

[Wildreefs]

I wasn't saying that it should be done, just that it's the only way to get rid of it. Uronema is a parasite that can live without a host and cannot be starved out of the system.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/uronema-marinum.247940/

I understand and agree with you that is the only way you can get rid of it. However, knowing it is virtually in every system, since any system that has had it that hasn’t been disinfected will always have it, you are bound to get it again.

Pretty sure most of my fish have been in systems with chromis showing signs of it, however, my fish havnt showed it, and I havnt used formalin, which from all
Accounts drastically shortens the fishes life anyhow

 

[Mjrenz]

I understand and agree with you that is the only way you can get rid of it. However, knowing it is virtually in every system, since any system that has had it that hasn’t been disinfected will always have it, you are bound to get it again.

Pretty sure most of my fish have been in systems with chromis showing signs of it, however, my fish havnt showed it, and I havnt used formalin, which from all
Accounts drastically shortens the fishes life anyhow

Most fish aren't affected but if the one here survives then he'll probably get it again if he goes back in that tank.

I never qt'd my fish in the past but, due to recent experiences I've had, I'm currently in the process of placing all of my fish in qt and eradicating every parasite I can from my dt. I'm also going to be putting every new arrival through qt to keep diseases out of my tank.

My feelings on Formalin are mixed, it's a known carcinogen yet we're soaking our fish in it and radiation is supposed to cause cancer yet it's used to treat it... It's all so confusing!

 

[Wildreefs]

Most fish aren't affected but if the one here survives then he'll probably get it again if he goes back in that tank.

I never qt'd my fish in the past but, due to recent experiences I've had, I'm currently in the process of placing all of my fish in qt and eradicating every parasite I can from my dt. I'm also going to be putting every new arrival through qt to keep diseases out of my tank.

My feelings on Formalin are mixed, it's a known carcinogen yet we're soaking our fish in it and radiation is supposed to cause cancer yet it's used to treat it... It's all so confusing!

With you on all accounts, it is very confusing, and I don’t think it’s been figured out yet .

But to bleach out and restart using formalin knowing it may very well kill then in two years, versus hopefully never seeing uro and getting 5-7 years....to me all that effort and still have a bad, short ending .

 

[Brian Kennedy]

I think it's time to cut my losses, break down the tank and find something better to do with my time and money. It just killed the last chromis in the brand new 120g. Uronema is presumably in all of the local systems in my area and seems to be impossible to keep it out of the DT. Is a reef tank that will continuously kill most of the fish I put on it really worth keeping? It doesn't really seem like something that can be "managed".

 

[Mjrenz]

I'm sorry to hear about your fish, I hope you don't decide to leave the hobby. It is possible to keep the parasite out of your tank by quarantining all new arrivals, unfortunately the only way to get it out of your tank now is to sterilize everything.

Try not to get too frustrated, there are a lot of ups and downs with reefing but the more we learn the more successful we become.

 

[Wildreefs]

How do you keep all parasites out? I don’t think anyone in here can 100 percent gaurantee they know of a way. Certainly no one will be betting the farm on it.

It was just “discovered” a month ago that 1.75 copper didn’t kill velvet. Sucks for all the people that read 1.5 prior and went with that number.

How does one keep Uronema out of the display? Formalin supposedly kills it, but is also a gaurantee death sentence a year or two after use.

I’m all for prevention, but this is very much gambling. Painting a picture of perfection in regards to disease free tanks leads to a lot of disappointment for people

 

[Mjrenz]

Metronidazole and chloroquine phosphate also kill uronema. We can't guarantee our own health or our fishs' health anywhere near 100% but we can do our best with the knowledge we have and the new knowledge we gain every day to prevent diseases. Even the foremost experts in fish keeping can't save every fish. There's no such thing as perfection in this hobby, just doing the best we can and enjoying it

 

[Brian Kennedy]

My goal isn't to save 100% of the fish I put in the tank. Rather, it's to not kill every fish I put in the tank! I entered the hobby completely ignorant to fish disease and made many mistakes. I straight up failed. I reset, took my time, read tons and tons of articles/threads all over the internet. Stocked up on meds, developed a plan. I watched every video BRS made multiple times and built a beautiful system with thought, patients and room for expansion. Learned about quarantine and medications to have on hand, proper husbandry, fish nutrition, redundancy, proper lighting. The new DT was set up in a different room with new and dedicated everything.....RODI, sand, rock, pumps, blah blah blah. Cycled for 3 months fishless with Dr. Tims and shrimp. Tested regularly for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, salinity, temp, pH, calcium, alk, mg. I believed I was dealing with ich only so I decided on TTM to get everyone into their new home and it seemed to go well. Like 2 days after the first batch was transferred to the new DT the old DT broke out in a serious case of velvet and ended up killing my fat and apparently happy Powder Brown and Pintail. I tried to save them, they didnt make it. So...after all that, the new DT was almost certainly contaminated with velvet from day 1. A few days later, the first of three chromis that survived the TTM and a year in the old DT died from uronema in the new DT. They are all dead now. Where the hell did uronema come from!!! I had't added anything new since last October. So here I am with two DT's contaminated with uronema and presumably a new DT that also has the added bonus of velvet. Obsessive caution, more time than I have spent on anything in a very long time and heaping pile of money to "do it right" has gotten me nowhere. Sorry for the rant but I am seriously discouraged. My only option seems to be nuke the tank, start over and HOPE for the best. Unfortunately, at this point I just don't know HOW to start over.

 

[Mjrenz]

My goal isn't to save 100% of the fish I put in the tank. Rather, it's to not kill every fish I put in the tank! I entered the hobby completely ignorant to fish disease and made many mistakes. I straight up failed. I reset, took my time, read tons and tons of articles/threads all over the internet. Stocked up on meds, developed a plan. I watched every video BRS made multiple times and built a beautiful system with thought, patients and room for expansion. Learned about quarantine and medications to have on hand, proper husbandry, fish nutrition, redundancy, proper lighting. The new DT was set up in a different room with new and dedicated everything.....RODI, sand, rock, pumps, blah blah blah. Cycled for 3 months fishless with Dr. Tims and shrimp. Tested regularly for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, salinity, temp, pH, calcium, alk, mg. I believed I was dealing with ich only so I decided on TTM to get everyone into their new home and it seemed to go well. Like 2 days after the first batch was transferred to the new DT the old DT broke out in a serious case of velvet and ended up killing my fat and apparently happy Powder Brown and Pintail. I tried to save them, they didnt make it. So...after all that, the new DT was almost certainly contaminated with velvet from day 1. A few days later, the first of three chromis that survived the TTM and a year in the old DT died from uronema in the new DT. They are all dead now. Where the hell did uronema come from!!! I had't added anything new since last October. So here I am with two DT's contaminated with uronema and presumably a new DT that also has the added bonus of velvet. Obsessive caution, more time than I have spent on anything in a very long time and heaping pile of money to "do it right" has gotten me nowhere. Sorry for the rant but I am seriously discouraged. My only option seems to be nuke the tank, start over and HOPE for the best. Unfortunately, at this point I just don't know HOW to start over.

I'm sorry you're dealing with this, you don't have to completly reset everything, the majority of the fish you get will be able to fight off the uronema parasite with a healthy immune system but I would avoid chromis unless you do sterilize and reset. You can starve out the rest of the parasites including velvet and ich with a 76 day fallow period, just make sure to stir up the sand so you can be sure there are no dormant parasites in an anaerobic location. If you adhere to a strict qt protocol it is possible to avoid this type of disaster in the future

 

[Wildreefs]

Metronidazole and chloroquine phosphate also kill uronema. We can't guarantee our own health or our fishs' health anywhere near 100% but we can do our best with the knowledge we have and the new knowledge we gain every day to prevent diseases. Even the foremost experts in fish keeping can't save every fish. There's no such thing as perfection in this hobby, just doing the best we can and enjoying it

Not knocking you, I just think the idea of disease free with uro is impossible. I treated chromis in metro, both in the water and via food at same time, only to see them go down me by one in treatment with the classic red sore.

Chloroquine is hard to get, and some fish cannot handle it. On top of that it is impossible to measure without a spectrometer, and breaks down quickly.

Even with that equipment or great guess work, some fish can’t go thru it. So your left with metro (ime doesn’t work, seem via 4 chromis still get it in treatment) or formalin, which kills uro, but kills fish a year later anyhow.

I don’t have an answer, as I don’t believe there is one. I myself spent a ton of time and money on proper quarantine and meds, convinced by my readings it would work, and was left disappointed.

Not saying quarantine is bad, just the false hopes it comes with aren’t always reality.

 

[Brian Kennedy]

Wildreefs, I appreciate your candid response. I am definitely still a noob and I'm trying to sort out what I've read vs practical real life expectation. Unfortunately for me I have little to no experience for comparison.

So is it a reasonable expectation that uro is in most tanks and is managed through proper nutrition, husbandry and stocking levels? Would you proceed with stocking a tank knowing it's got uro?

I have no burning desire to keep chromis. They were my canaries when i started up the first tank. My goal is to keep more fish alive than dead!

 

[Wildreefs]

Wildreefs, I appreciate your candid response. I am definitely still a noob and I'm trying to sort out what I've read vs practical real life expectation. Unfortunately for me I have little to no experience for comparison.

So is it a reasonable expectation that uro is in most tanks and is managed through proper nutrition, husbandry and stocking levels? Would you proceed with stocking a tank knowing it's got uro?

I have no burning desire to keep chromis. They were my canaries when i started up the first tank. My goal is to keep more fish alive than dead!

I would avoid chromis at all costs.

Me personally, I would get 2-3 hardier fish, maybe clown, lesser expensive flasher wrasse or a goby, qt them for the stuff we can treat, flukes, velvet, and see how they do.

Forget what you read, think logically here for a second. For example, my lfs pays 3500 a month in rent. He brings in chromis with red sores nearly every week. Bleaching down and restarting, letting the tent pile up while he cycled tanks to start again would never happen in a million years. The fish goes in garbage once it dies, and the next batch goes in.

Hundreds of non chromis fish will enter that system unscathed by Uro.

I think it’s everywhere, just a matter of hope you don’t notice or see it

 

[Brian Kennedy]

There are currently two clowns and a snowflake blenny left in the new DT. Inverts are all sitting fallow in the old DT.

Would uro impact the black Molly test to rule out velvet?