Using herbtana to treat ich

Ellissp · Mar 31, 2022

So most things I’ve heard about herbtana are that obviously it’s not one of the 3 proven ways to cure ich. I’ve been doing pretty extensive research on it due to being astonished that nobodies found methods for getting rid of ich in a display tank (with sand bed, corals, inverts) without having to do a separate quarantine tank. So my way of thinking around it now is that if you just put in herbtana daily for a good part of the parasites life cycle, the fish will have the protection from that parasite from their enhanced immune system until the parasites die off from not being able to host the fish. Right? The only reason I’m thinking this isn’t the case is that my understanding of herbtana is wrong and that it doesn’t fully expel the parasites from the fish which causes it to still be able to reproduce in the tank and further harm the fish.

I’ve been in this hobby for maybe 3 months so there’s most likely a reasonable answer I’m just not getting but it’d be cool if there are any people out there who are willing to share any experience or opinion on the topic. I know I should’ve set up a qt in the first place and that I’m better off just doing the qt, fw dip, and copper method for these problems so I am doing that, however, it might take a week or two to get everything together so I’m just dosing herbtana to be safe and thinking about the problem in the meantime ‍

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polyppal · Mar 31, 2022

just bite the bullet and do a proper ich removal method (qt/copper or hypo). chances are your not gonna get it all with this bottled junk. It’ll prob just stress out the livestock in the end…

have you researched hyposalinity? That’s the easiest way to get ich out of a DT if your just starting out and don’t have much going on coralwise

Lbrdsoxfan · Mar 31, 2022

Herbtana is junk imho, BTDT. I went ich management instead of eradication about 4 years and a few tanks ago (I had a fallow/qt experience not go well). As said above the methods posted are the way to go for eradication.

I went with using a large UV and a good diet for the fish. My new additions do pretty well overall.

SlugSnorter · Mar 31, 2022

Ellissp said:
So most things I’ve heard about herbtana are that obviously it’s not one of the 3 proven ways to cure ich. I’ve been doing pretty extensive research on it due to being astonished that nobodies found methods for getting rid of ich in a display tank (with sand bed, corals, inverts) without having to do a separate quarantine tank. So my way of thinking around it now is that if you just put in herbtana daily for a good part of the parasites life cycle, the fish will have the protection from that parasite from their enhanced immune system until the parasites die off from not being able to host the fish. Right? The only reason I’m thinking this isn’t the case is that my understanding of herbtana is wrong and that it doesn’t fully expel the parasites from the fish which causes it to still be able to reproduce in the tank and further harm the fish.

I’ve been in this hobby for maybe 3 months so there’s most likely a reasonable answer I’m just not getting but it’d be cool if there are any people out there who are willing to share any experience or opinion on the topic. I know I should’ve set up a qt in the first place and that I’m better off just doing the qt, fw dip, and copper method for these problems so I am doing that, however, it might take a week or two to get everything together so I’m just dosing herbtana to be safe and thinking about the problem in the meantime ‍.

the only semi effective method for dealing with ich in a DT that ive heard of is Kick Ich with Metroplex + Focus.

Sharkbait19 · Mar 31, 2022

If you want ich out, which I recommend you should, you have to pull all fish out and quarantine. Keep the tank fallow for at minimum 45 days, 76-90 being even more effective.
Most in tank, coral safe, medications are pretty much useless.

ISpeakForTheSeas · Mar 31, 2022

I have to agree with what Sharkbait (ooh-ha-ha) said above, but I thought it was kind of funny coming across this thread after reading through this one:

I made a video of my experience using Microbe-Lift Herbtana Parasite remover, and what it did to my tank, hope this info helps other reefers!

This is what happened when I took my LFS's recommendation and tried to use Microbe-Lift Herbtana to remove some parasites. Hope this helps others!

www.reef2reef.com

Wick · Mar 31, 2022

Lbrdsoxfan said:
Herbtana is junk imho, BTDT. I went ich management instead of eradication about 4 years and a few tanks ago (I had a fallow/qt experience not go well). As said above the methods posted are the way to go for eradication.

I went with using a large UV and a good diet for the fish. My new additions do pretty well overall.

this is going to be my method forever now is management of it. I feel its literally on everything and i'm not going to QT my corals and inverts. to much work for me. i used to QT my fish and treat which is fine and dandy but as i said this stuff comes on everything lol

Ellissp · Mar 31, 2022

Lbrdsoxfan said:
Herbtana is junk imho, BTDT. I went ich management instead of eradication about 4 years and a few tanks ago (I had a fallow/qt experience not go well). As said above the methods posted are the way to go for eradication.

I went with using a large UV and a good diet for the fish. My new additions do pretty well overall.

I haven’t thought of just doing a uv sterilizer and a better diet, I think I might try that route to experiment! Thank you!

Porpoise Hork · Mar 31, 2022

The majority of UV lamps won't really do much against ich. You would need a lamp in excess of 100w - 150w minimum at a very low flow rate through the chamber to see any sort of results and then would only impact the parasites that were exposed to it. The timeframe to eradication with UV could take months. You're better off dosing with a slow release oxidizer like 12% food grade peroxide in a slow release chamber, bromine/bromide (PolypLab Medic) , or Ozone. Ich parasites are extremely susceptible to oxidizers when in the free swimming stages. I have had decent success with using Medic against ich on copper sensitive fish but only when I quadrupled the recommended dose and maintained this dosage for 6 weeks after the initial white spots were seen. Would it work for you as well? Maybe, maybe not.

Ellissp · Mar 31, 2022

Porpoise Hork said:
The majority of UV lamps won't really do much against ich. You would need a lamp in excess of 100w - 150w minimum at a very low flow rate through the chamber to see any sort of results and then would only impact the parasites that were exposed to it. The timeframe to eradication with UV could take months. You're better off dosing with a slow release oxidizer like 12% food grade peroxide in a slow release chamber, bromine/bromide (PolypLab Medic) , or Ozone. Ich parasites are extremely susceptible to oxidizers when in the free swimming stages. I have had decent success with using Medic against ich on copper sensitive fish but only when I quadrupled the recommended dose and maintained this dosage for 6 weeks after the initial white spots were seen. Would it work for you as well? Maybe, maybe not.

i was actually thinking about how resilient they might be to uv so thank you for the info. I’m gonna research more on medic and if it might be a better way in my situation. Thank you for sharing your experience.

Porpoise Hork · Mar 31, 2022

Here is an article from @Humblefish about marine ich that may also yield some better information about treatment options.

Sharkbait19 · Mar 31, 2022

Is there a reason you cannot fallow and qt?
It’s a pain but a lot better than the headache and risk that would come with ich management.

Porpoise Hork · Mar 31, 2022

For many people, myself included there just isn't space to setup a hospital/QT tank for that length of time.

Pale Morning1 · Mar 31, 2022

I have used Herbtana (may have been Kordans herb version) in both my salt and freshwater tanks for visible ich (clowns in salt and rams in fresh). I had corals in the salt that closed up when added and the fresh water tank is heavily planted. Within a week both tanks had fish without visible signs of ich and the plants and corals were unscathed. Ich has not returned in either.
I understand that this treatment is considered ineffective by most experience SW hobbyist. I don’t know if it had any effect. I was new to SW when this occurred and didn’t want to kill corals so I tried it. All I can do is report what happened. Two of the fish in the SW are still in tank a year later and doing well as are most of the corals.

Porpoise Hork · Mar 31, 2022

Pale Morning1 said:
I have used Herbtana (may have been Kordans herb version) in both my salt and freshwater tanks for visible ich (clowns in salt and rams in fresh). I had corals in the salt that closed up when added and the fresh water tank is heavily planted. Within a week both tanks had fish without visible signs of ich and the plants and corals were unscathed. Ich has not returned in either.
I understand that this treatment is considered ineffective by most experience SW hobbyist. I don’t know if it had any effect. I was new to SW when this occurred and didn’t want to kill corals so I tried it. All I can do is report what happened. Two of the fish in the SW are still in tank a year later and doing well as are most of the corals.

The visible ich spots falling off is part of the parasite's life cycle. The fish that survived this likely have developed an immunity to the parasites. This does not mean that there is no longer ich in the tank as any new fish added could likely become infected as well.

Pale Morning1 · Mar 31, 2022

I understand.
I am just reporting what happened in both of my tanks.
i do know if I had an ich outbreak in my tanks again I would not hesitate to at least try the herbal remedy again as I experienced no ill effects when used last time.

Wick · Mar 31, 2022

the point of using the uv isn't to eliminate it, its to manage it. and yes the flow rate is important for it which must be slower.

Tamberav · Mar 31, 2022

The big problem I see with UV in threads like this is new hobbiest don’t want to spend the 200-500 hundred dollars for a proper UV for just a chance it might help.

That green machine on Amazon is a waste of time for ich.

Sharkbait19 · Mar 31, 2022

Tamberav said:
The big problem I see with UV in threads like this is new hobbiest don’t want to spend the 200-500 hundred dollars for a proper UV for just a chance it might help.

That green machine on Amazon is a waste of time for ich.

Good point - you would probably be spending a lot of money for management vs eradication.

A qt doesn’t have to be anywhere fancy as long as you can observe the fish in it - my qt was on the floor off to the side. And all you need is a 10-20 gallon tank assuming you aren’t dealing with large fish.

Wick · Mar 31, 2022

Sharkbait19 said:
Good point - you would probably be spending a lot of money for management vs eradication.

A qt doesn’t have to be anywhere fancy as long as you can observe the fish in it - my qt was on the floor off to the side. And all you need is a 10-20 gallon tank assuming you aren’t dealing with large fish.

the problem is is that ich can enter a tank via inverts and corals. so its not just quarantining the fish to not have ich enter a system. so now if you think about it you start to add up money for corals ( light, or lights ) tank, filter, heater, salt, water, this all adds up super quick. Not to mention the time that goes into this. so the money argument i would disagree with and you add time to it now.