Using macroalgae to ship fish?

Humblefish · Nov 11, 2019

Purely hypothetical but ... What if online fish vendors used a small amount of Chaetomorpha when shipping fish?

Chaeto consumes ammonia + carbon dioxide, releases oxygen ... The only real downside I can think of is if harmful pathogens (parasites, worms, bacteria) hitchhiked their way into the bag water via Chaeto.

;Cyclops

ReefLab · Nov 11, 2019

Free chaeto? I vote yes

drawman · Nov 11, 2019

Humblefish said:
Purely hypothetical but ... What if online fish vendors used a small amount of Chaetomorpha when shipping fish?

Chaeto consumes ammonia + carbon dioxide, releases oxygen ... The only real downside I can think of is if harmful pathogens (parasites, worms, bacteria) hitchhiked their way into the bag water via Chaeto.

;Cyclops

I wonder if there would be a risk of some fish getting tangled up in it causing injury. Might need to isolite the chaeto in the bag?

pcon · Nov 11, 2019

any concerns about eye or slime coat damage from rubbing in transit?

LIreefguy · Nov 12, 2019

Marco algae only consumes carbon dioxide when it has light by photosynthesis
When there isn’t light plants use oxygen just like us and fish
So it would do more harm than good

Humblefish · Nov 12, 2019

LIreefguy said:
Marco algae only consumes carbon dioxide when it has light by photosynthesis
When there isn’t light plants use oxygen just like us and fish
So it would do more harm than good

If true, this kills the whole idea.

Seanislav · Nov 12, 2019

I guess it depends on how long the fish is in transit. In dark quarters, algae and higher plants metabolize oxygen and release carbon dioxide...it could work to the detriment of the fish if transit time is more than a day or two.

Humblefish · Nov 12, 2019

LIreefguy said:
Marco algae only consumes carbon dioxide when it has light by photosynthesis
When there isn’t light plants use oxygen just like us and fish
So it would do more harm than good

Seanislav said:
I guess it depends on how long the fish is in transit. In dark quarters, algae and higher plants metabolize oxygen and release carbon dioxide...it could work to the detriment of the fish if transit time is more than a day or two.

I'm ignorant about plants, and I've had too much eggnog tonight.

Help me understand... Is it photorespiration or dark respiration which will cause this?? What's the terminology I need to be researching here?

Daniel@R2R · Nov 12, 2019

Humblefish said:
Purely hypothetical but ... What if online fish vendors used a small amount of Chaetomorpha when shipping fish?

Chaeto consumes ammonia + carbon dioxide, releases oxygen ... The only real downside I can think of is if harmful pathogens (parasites, worms, bacteria) hitchhiked their way into the bag water via Chaeto.

;Cyclops

I'm really curious about this too! Intriguing idea! Following!

LIreefguy · Nov 12, 2019

They give out carbon dioxide not only at night but during the day too. It happens because of the process of respiration in which plants take in oxygen and give out carbon dioxide. As soon as the sun rises another process called photosynthesis starts, in which carbon dioxide is taken in and oxygen is given out. So during the day it’s a positive affect

Humblefish · Nov 12, 2019

LIreefguy said:
They give out carbon dioxide not only at night but during the day too. It happens because of the process of respiration in which plants take in oxygen and give out carbon dioxide. As soon as the sun rises another process called photosynthesis starts, in which carbon dioxide is taken in and oxygen is given out. So during the day it’s a positive affect

So, shipping plants with fish sounds like a bad idea. ;Sorry It would be counterproductive. My original thought was finding a way to buy fish more time in the bag when shipping gets delayed. Since ammonia, running out of oxygen are two killers of fish in transit.

pcon · Nov 12, 2019

It's been a few years since APbio but, There is something called the Dark cycle or the light independent photosynthetic cycle, which turns products of the light cycle into more useable energy forms for the cell, and uses Co2. Despite being called the dark cycle I believe it is primarily limited to when the plant is actively photosynthesizing.

pcon · Nov 12, 2019

Humblefish said:
My original thought was finding a way to buy fish more time in the bag when shipping gets delayed. Since ammonia, running out of oxygen are the main killers of fish in transit.

What about ammonia scrubbing media? Most CO2 scrubbers don't usually work wet but perhaps that could be an avenue of approach.

Humblefish · Nov 12, 2019

There is also this (but I've never tried them):

Breathing Bags™ | Kordon

But I know a wholesaler who uses those bags, and pumps pure O2 into the shipping cooler before sealing it shut. They use industrial tape all around the cooler lid to seal in the oxygen.

Humblefish · Nov 12, 2019

This can be used to detoxify ammonia in the bag water for up to 72 hours: https://www.seachem.com/amguard.php

It lasts longer than Prime. You can also ship fish using StressGuard or Methylene Blue. I'm just searching for a more natural way.

Dr. Dendrostein · Nov 12, 2019

Humblefish said:
Purely hypothetical but ... What if online fish vendors used a small amount of Chaetomorpha when shipping fish?

Chaeto consumes ammonia + carbon dioxide, releases oxygen ... The only real downside I can think of is if harmful pathogens (parasites, worms, bacteria) hitchhiked their way into the bag water via Chaeto.

;Cyclops

To remove unwanted algae on macroalgae, I would leave in a bucket with lid for 4 days, chaeto show no signs of chlorophyll lose. Some needs to ship with fish see what happens. Should be beneficial, with no side effects. MHO

DLHDesign · Nov 12, 2019

Would adding a measured quantity of active nitrifying bacteria be an option?

Seanislav · Nov 12, 2019

I know plants a tad better than microbes, but I believe the process of nitrogen fixation uses some oxygen as well to produce either N2 or NO3 (I'm not sure which would be more prevalent with bacteria...I'm assuming it would be nitrite to nitrate...which wouldn't poison poison the fish outright like ammonia would, but it might compete with them for oxygen.

Humblefish · Nov 12, 2019

DLHDesign said:
Would adding a measured quantity of active nitrifying bacteria be an option?

In a confined space nitrifying bacteria can turn on fish. When I watched LADD's video on how to ship fish, they use sterile water for this reason. (Well, as sterile as possible.)

Seanislav said:
I know plants a tad better than microbes, but I believe the process of nitrogen fixation uses some oxygen as well to produce either N2 or NO3 (I'm not sure which would be more prevalent with bacteria...I'm assuming it would be nitrite to nitrate...which wouldn't poison poison the fish outright like ammonia would, but it might compete with them for oxygen.

Thanks for the information. Shipping fish w/macro is probably a bad idea for the reasons you (and others) have outlined. One workaround that was suggested (on another forum) was to use a small battery powered LED to supply the chaeto with light. Unfortunately, that wouldn't be cost effective.