UV + chelated copper?

[Humblefish]

There have been some positive anecdotal experiences lately of using Copper Power with a UV sterilizer running. The primary reason for wanting to do this is to clear up a bacterial bloom (cloudy water) which sometimes happens in QT.

Seachem states not to use UV with Cupramine: https://www.seachem.com/support/forums/forum/under-the-sea/296-cupramine-and-uv

Cupramine is a ionic copper bond to an amine. Being bonded like this makes the ionic copper safe at higher levels. UV light breaks this bond. This releases ionic copper at a dangerous level. This is why we recommend to turn off your UV sterilizers.

Would it be logical to assume that the same applies to chelated copper? That the UV light would "break" the bond of the chelating agent, and the aquarium will have a sudden, lethal concentration of copper sulfate. Just trying to figure out if experimenting with this would be doomed from the start. TIA

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

The organic compound chelating the copper might break apart. How fast that happens and whether it is an issue may vary depending on the exact product used.

 

[Humblefish]

The organic compound chelating the copper might break apart. How fast that happens and whether it is an issue may vary depending on the exact product used.

Thanks Randy. Sounds like it's going to be a test & see sorta thing.

In the meanwhile (for anyone reading), a safer option for clearing bacterial blooms w/copper in the water would probably be running a DE filter:



I've tested diatomaceous earth with copper pretty extensively, and no ill effects or noticeable absorption has been observed.

 

[Marc88]

Thanks Randy. Sounds like it's going to be a test & see sorta thing.

In the meanwhile (for anyone reading), a safer option for clearing bacterial blooms w/copper in the water would probably be running a DE filter:



I've tested diatomaceous earth with copper pretty extensively, and no ill effects or noticeable absorption has been observed.

Did you happen to test the UV theory out?

 

[Beau_B]

Bump again... anyone have new info?

 

[DaddyFish]

Bump again! Anyone else trying UV with copper?

I'm currently battling a Velvet outbreak in a DT and decided to use Coppersafe rather than lose everyone.

I normally run UV in that tank but turned it off as per the Coppersafe directions. You could almost see the Velvet spread to other livestock without UV restraint. All the previously unaffected livestock, overnight lost appetite, became lethargic and showed external signs.

Rather than watch them all die in a day I took the risk and turned on UV for four hours, enough time to insure one complete pass of the tank volume through UV. It's now 48-hours later and there's significant improvement in both appearance and behavior of all.

It certainly wasn't a controlled experiment, but an act of desperation that may have worked. Time will tell.

 

[Beau_B]

My LFS claims the quartz sleeve will get destroyed (opaque? I don't know) and that the UV somehow removes the copper.

I would be interested to hear anyone else back that up.

 

[DaddyFish]

I can understand the quartz sleeve becoming plated. I'm running 36-watt UV at just under 200 gph, so if there's going to be any plating, I'll see it there.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

My LFS claims the quartz sleeve will get destroyed (opaque? I don't know) and that the UV somehow removes the copper.

I would be interested to hear anyone else back that up.

It may become opaque for other reasons. Calcium carbonate precipitation on it due to its being warm, for example.

 

[dyno]

There have been some positive anecdotal experiences lately of using Copper Power with a UV sterilizer running. The primary reason for wanting to do this is to clear up a bacterial bloom (cloudy water) which sometimes happens in QT.

Seachem states not to use UV with Cupramine: https://www.seachem.com/support/forums/forum/under-the-sea/296-cupramine-and-uv


Would it be logical to assume that the same applies to chelated copper? That the UV light would "break" the bond of the chelating agent, and the aquarium will have a sudden, lethal concentration of copper sulfate. Just trying to figure out if experimenting with this would be doomed from the start. TIA

Personal experience. I run 2 - 2.5 ppm of Copper Power with a 15w UV and have never had a problem.

 

[RegalAngel]

UV Sterilization Selection Guide

Select the right UV Sterilization system for your aquarium based on aquarium size & waterflow rate with the LiveAquaria® “UV Sterilization Selection Guide"

www.liveaquaria.com

"The UV light will "break" the bond of the chelating agent, and the aquarium will have a sudden, lethal concentration of ionic copper."

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

UV Sterilization Selection Guide

Select the right UV Sterilization system for your aquarium based on aquarium size & waterflow rate with the LiveAquaria® “UV Sterilization Selection Guide"

www.liveaquaria.com

"The UV light will "break" the bond of the chelating agent, and the aquarium will have a sudden, lethal concentration of ionic copper."

Well, now we see the difference between a scientific answer that allows for uncertainty and variability, and a reef shop answer that doesn’t.