UV sterilizer flow rate and viruses

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Is there a way how It could spread from tank to tank hooked up to one shared system/sump?

Yes - it can spread that way. Adding a UV sterilizer to the system where it flows between tanks is actually the most effective way to use UV.

Jay

 

[Spare time]

Yes - it can spread that way. Adding a UV sterilizer to the system where it flows between tanks is actually the most effective way to use UV.

Jay

So for this disease, would the UV sterilizer best be suited with flow similar to that which treats bacteria and algae or that or protozoa? I saw the table shared on this post I figured id double check with you.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

dang, some funny comments.
I am a dr and wrote my master thesis on sterilization for non conventional pathogenic agents.( aka PRIONs)

1. Not all virus have envelopes. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4462923/). Some enveloped viruses are very weak, some non enveloped virus are very weak...
2. Viruses are usually much easier to inactivate than bacteria or protozoan.
3. pathogenicity is not an all or nothing concept. You need a certain quantity of infective "material" to trigger disease. So using a UV a few hours may reduce the viral/bacterial particle numbers and help "clinically".

That said, given the UV sizes and flow we are using, our UV are not sterilizing water... at all. Sterilizing means eliminating all forms of infectious organisms... If you just decrease that number you are not sterilizing.
I run mine 24/7 , it stops if water temperature gets too high. I am not saying that is the correct way to run UV, just what I do.

I checked my copy of Spotte's book - it does NOT contain the UV dosing info that I thought it did. He has a very complicated formula for dosing based on the target organism's size. I did find in the Pentair catalog, a UV dosing chart, with no reference given. They list a huge variation in dosing for viruses:

Koi Herpesvirus - 4 mJ/cm2
IHNV - 30 mJ/cm2
VHS - 32 mJ/cm2
IPNV - 246 mJ/cm2

For frame of reference, they list Cryptocaryon at 280 mJ/cm2


Jay

 

[Spare time]

Thank you all very much!

 

[Spare time]

I checked my copy of Spotte's book - it does NOT contain the UV dosing info that I thought it did. He has a very complicated formula for dosing based on the target organism's size. I did find in the Pentair catalog, a UV dosing chart, with no reference given. They list a huge variation in dosing for viruses:

Koi Herpesvirus - 4 mJ/cm2
IHNV - 30 mJ/cm2
VHS - 32 mJ/cm2
IPNV - 246 mJ/cm2

For frame of reference, they list Cryptocaryon at 280 mJ/cm2


Jay

Did you see recommended flow for the virus for cauliflower disease (or similar) anywehre?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Did you see recommended flow for the virus for cauliflower disease (or similar) anywehre?

No, just those four viruses. Noga gives a general range for disinfection of 120-300 mJ/cm/second. Remember , this is for slug flow, from one system to another. Side stream flow, where the water returns to the same tank (almost all of our applications) needs to be higher, since the dwell time can allow the parasites to reproduce faster than the UV can take them out.
Jay

 

[Huskymaniac]

No, just those four viruses. Noga gives a general range for disinfection of 120-300 mJ/cm/second. Remember , this is for slug flow, from one system to another. Side stream flow, where the water returns to the same tank (almost all of our applications) needs to be higher, since the dwell time can allow the parasites to reproduce faster than the UV can take them out.
Jay

Jay,

From your experience does a properly plumbed uv sterilizer do a number on controlling parasites such as crypto. For instance if you plumb a 120 watt pentair uv inline on a 160 gallon tank and essentially turn the tank volume 7 to 8 times per hour then theoretically anything going down into the sump isn't making its way back up. Does a parasite like marine ick readily follow the water down the drain or is the parasite smart enough to try and swim in the display.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

My opinion is that a properly sized UV (wattage and flow rate) will help reduce Cryptocaryon tomites, when used as a side-stream like that. However, knowledge of public aquariums, with industrial UV, sized by an engineer, that still see ich in their system tells me that it isn't a 100% control scenario. Why would that be? It could be what is known as "propagule pressure", if 90% of the tomites are eliminated before they can reinfect the fish, that still leaves 10% out there in the water column, and that is enough to continue the population. OR, (and this is just my personal paranoia), tomites may be able to stick to a fish's mucus and develop further, without having to enter the water column at all....meaning UV won't touch them. This happens with many direct development parasites, as well as bacterial infections.

Jay

 

[ReefBeta]

Jay,

From your experience does a properly plumbed uv sterilizer do a number on controlling parasites such as crypto. For instance if you plumb a 120 watt pentair uv inline on a 160 gallon tank and essentially turn the tank volume 7 to 8 times per hour then theoretically anything going down into the sump isn't making its way back up. Does a parasite like marine ick readily follow the water down the drain or is the parasite smart enough to try and swim in the display.

It's almost certain that some will remain in the display. Just think of it, detritus accumulates in display. Nothing flows in water column can be reasonably expected be 100% filtered through the sump. But with enough power it may bring the population low enough that the fish immune system can handle the rest. But it won't be eradicated.

 

[Huskymaniac]

It's almost certain that some will remain in the display. Just think of it, detritus accumulates in display. Nothing flows in water column can be reasonably expected be 100% filtered through the sump. But with enough power it may bring the population low enough that the fish immune system can handle the rest. But it won't be eradicated.

Detritus is alot larger than ick. I would think ick is more like phytoplankton in terms of size.

 

[newfly]

Come across this thread as I’m researching for uv flow as size for my tank. I have a 65g tank.

a lot of the discussion is focus on gph per watt. This makes sense but Is there any minimum watt to kill virus and parasites? I mean 25w 100gph and 100w 400gph are both effective in killing parasites? I understand higher flow rates will have higher turnover and is more effective.

 

[Huskymaniac]

Come across this thread as I’m researching for uv flow as size for my tank. I have a 65g tank.

a lot of the discussion is focus on gph per watt. This makes sense but Is there any minimum watt to kill virus and parasites? I mean 25w 100gph and 100w 400gph are both effective in killing parasites? I understand higher flow rates will have higher turnover and is more effective.

They would probablly both kill at the same level but your turning over more water volume at the 100w 400gph.

 

[ReefHog]

Come across this thread as I’m researching for uv flow as size for my tank. I have a 65g tank.

a lot of the discussion is focus on gph per watt. This makes sense but Is there any minimum watt to kill virus and parasites? I mean 25w 100gph and 100w 400gph are both effective in killing parasites? I understand higher flow rates will have higher turnover and is more effective.

See chart on first page.

 

[newfly]

See chart on first page.

That’s what I’m referring to. The chart just show recommended gph per watt. My question is is there any minimum watt requirement?

taking to the extreme, can I have 1watt UV with 1 gph flow rate. This meet the gph per watt in the chart. Is 1w have enough power to kill the virus? Probably not?

this is just a hypothetical example.

 

[ReefHog]

It’s there. If you have a 65 gallon tank you will need 3 times tank turnover for parasites. That’s 195gph. Then, for instance, if your working with a class B UV, you will need maximum 8 gph per watt. That comes to +/- 24 watts. So I would say a 25 watt sterilizer would be the minimum for a 65 gallon tank.

 

[newfly]

It’s there. If you have a 65 gallon tank you will need 3 times tank turnover for parasites. That’s 195gph. Then, for instance, if your working with a class B UV, you will need maximum 8 gph per watt. That comes to +/- 24 watts. So I would say a 25 watt sterilizer would be the minimum for a 65 gallon tank. You could go 1gph but you’d need a 200 watt UV then.

Thank you! I missed the turnover in the chart.