Vacuuming a sand bed or not That is my question

[Wiz]

Okay ive done alot of research on this subject lately. it would seem that if you have a shallow sand bed that is less than 3 or 4 inches deep you should definitely vacuum. a sandbed that is shallow will not support the life necessary to clean itself. I personally vacuum my display tank which has a three-quarter inch sand bed with a gravel filter into my sump/fuge through a filter sock or two. I do this once a week.
A dsb should not ever be vacuumed. 4" or more with fine sand will hold suffivient life to clean itself. But only when done right. Animals such as sand stars and sifting gobies are a huge no no for dsb. Although they will stir your sand, they do not eat the harmful nutrients in your sand. They actually eat the worms, bugs, and other small life that do eat these nutrients. :-( I prefer to use a dsb in my refugium which is never touched accept harvesting plants. And the life is amazing!

Great article on dsb. Ron Shimek's Website...Deep Sand Beds

 

[basile]

Okay ive done alot of research on this subject lately. it would seem that if you have a shallow sand bed that is less than 3 or 4 inches deep you should definitely vacuum. a sandbed that is shallow will not support the life necessary to clean itself. I personally vacuum my display tank which has a three-quarter inch sand bed with a gravel filter into my sump/fuge through a filter sock or two. I do this once a week.
A dsb should not ever be vacuumed. 4" or more with fine sand will hold suffivient life to clean itself. But only when done right. Animals such as sand stars and sifting gobies are a huge no no for dsb. Although they will stir your sand, they do not eat the harmful nutrients in your sand. They actually eat the worms, bugs, and other small life that do eat these nutrients. :-( I prefer to use a dsb in my refugium which is never touched accept harvesting plants. And the life is amazing!




Great article on dsb. Ron Shimek's Website...Deep Sand Beds

Bogus my friend , bogus.... mine is perfectly good and clean and is full of life ; this is whats in my sand without ever syphoning the life out of it and i have generations of snails ,Cirratulid Worms and growing in it unlike all those who constantly take out all the eggs with their unnecessary weekly cleaning ;

Cirratulid Worms ( detritus cleaners ) multiply by the thousands if left alone.



[video=youtube;ImnD9S9EZus]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImnD9S9EZus[/video]​

 

[Wiz]

Bogus my friend , bogus.... mine is perfectly good and clean and is full of life ; this is whats in my sand without ever syphoning the life out of it and i have generations of snails ,Cirratulid Worms and growing in it unlike all those who constantly take out all the eggs with their unnecessary weekly cleaning ;

Cirratulid Worms ( detritus cleaners ) multiply by the thousands if left alone.



[video=youtube;ImnD9S9EZus]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImnD9S9EZus[/video]​

not sure what part you are saying is bogus. could you elaborate? you can see as much or more life in my sand bed without a microscope. but also from the vids on your link I would guess that you have a deep sand bed which would agree with what I said. did you read what my comment was. Or just the first couple sentences?
https://youtu.be/OaI_SsCTxMU

 

[Wiz]

that video that I posted the link to is a cell phone video. no microscope

 

[basile]

It doesn't matter the dept of the sand bed LEAVE IT ALONE. For god sake people are obcessed with cleaning the sand as if it was a carpet . It suppose to have bugs in it and have sand in it. worms, and yes poop. bacterias are needed to feed bacterias and other animals. I've just completed a full year with a daily 12 hour skimmer shut down to encourage the growth of my sponge so that they can take over the filtration of the tank. And it worked.

The sponges have multiplied and are gradualy growing in the caves and filtering my water cristal clear. Women and their spatula cleaning the side of the tank because they don't like the colors make me sick, CHANGE HOBBY!! . nature works in its own way and chemical reaction occurs in the sand bed and shouldn't be disturbed because you don't like the colors on the side of the tank is completely ridiculous.... Debris(seeweeds) in a tank is actually a good thing. In nature pods and different amphiopods uses them for homes and foods. I find for my self it makes my tank look more natural as well.

When you know about chemistry you actually can identify whats going on in the sand and admire nature at work instead of interfearing. High biological activity in the sand will encourage lots of bugs to eat up detritus and produce pods, and other foods for fish, pods, and other critter that eats cyanobacteria, never had cyano and i feed a lot .

I have a very high nutrient tank , because i have an NPS zone , i mostly have LPS and lots of gorgonians that i feed every hours with a dosing pump. Plus , clams, a feather starfish and a basket starfish all fed every hour with a dosing pump, and i don't have a single problem with cyano or detritus problem, because my sand is so active with worms and mini snails. And i still feed those at night with Kelp.

My fish are fat from my own , home made food , fed twice a day , with 12 different meats in that mixture plus vitamins and plankton , one thing i found is that fish that was brough to me with ich , totally disapeared with good food and variety of it. people are so affraid of feeding, because they forget to keep their sand alive and well fed to pick up the trash that falls into it after. If you have a good foundation , (sand) you can feed all you want , the rest will be eaten away no problem, by your little critters in the sand. Most of my dosing are from fauna marin ; for sponges, gorgonians, filter feeders, Reef-Roids, all mixed up in a solution fed every hour .

I used a wine cooler for refrigerate the solution otherwise it goes bad. and its fed through the dosing pump. 3ml/hour

You can buy these and other like these at any good health store like sobeys or tree huger stores, they cost less than the LFS and last longer. One leaf use to last a week at the bottom of the tank. But when the population of critter grew, one every 2 days was needed to keep up. After they've been chewed up a bit the tang and the rest of the fish goes on it. The blenny's loves this. So does the foxface.

Making your own food cost less and last longer. If you consider the slab of mysis at +- $24 for 494g that we buy at the LFS. I make mine for $ 18 but with 12 different meats and its 990g per slab or $9 per 494g ; and it last 7 months $126 worth of fresh seafoods i buy once and process it and zip lock it. The process take about 2h of my time. You want to save money thats where you do it.
​

 

[ritter6788]

See this is why I took my sand out...no worries about vacuuming or not. :xd:

 

[ritter6788]

I removed your last post since you used vulgarity and flat out insulted the members here with a vulgar name.

It's hypocritical for you to go on and on about your methods and discoveries then bash those that don't use them. All the while bashing everyone that posts their own methods and discoveries.

 

[Trex]

So, back to your way is the only way?


What happens to all the waste that your sandbed creatures produce? Does it just disappear?

And, please, don't tell people to change hobbies. Each and every tank is different, as long as the inhabitants are doing well, and the hobbyist is pleased, then whatever they are doing is working.

 

[dball711]

Vacuum sand once and see all the brown water come up. Now ask yourself…should I leave it in the sand…or take it out?

I say yes.

I think this says it all...nuf said now go clean your sand bed.

 

[dball711]

Vacuum sand once and see all the brown water come up. Now ask yourself…should I leave it in the sand…or take it out?<br>
<br>
I say yes.

<br><br>

I think this says it all...nuff said now go clean your sand bed.

 

[mfinn]

Deep sand bed, shallow sand bed, or bare bottom. People will make all 3 work just fine. Vacuuming or not, will work fine too. That's what's nice about this hobby, there are many ways to do it.
Anyone who says their way is the right way or the only way to do it right is full of it.

 

[Wiz]

I removed your last post since you used vulgarity and flat out insulted the members here with a vulgar name.

It's hypocritical for you to go on and on about your methods and discoveries then bash those that don't use them. All the while bashing everyone that posts their own methods and discoveries.

If you want to use a vulgar name to describe those that disagree, you might need to check the mirror.

Thankyou it is avoiding peoples bad attitudes that brought me to r2r. We can discuss and learn from eachother without being rude. Or forcing our opinions. If a method works it will overcome. If it doesn't it will fail. No forcing necasary

 

[Wiz]

It doesn't matter the dept of the sand bed LEAVE IT ALONE. For god sake people are obcessed with cleaning the sand as if it was a carpet . It suppose to have bugs in it and have sand in it. worms, and yes poop. bacterias are needed to feed bacterias and other animals. I've just completed a full year with a daily 12 hour skimmer shut down to encourage the growth of my sponge so that they can take over the filtration of the tank. And it worked.

The sponges have multiplied and are gradualy growing in the caves and filtering my water cristal clear. Women and their spatula cleaning the side of the tank because they don't like the colors make me sick, CHANGE HOBBY!! . nature works in its own way and chemical reaction occurs in the sand bed and shouldn't be disturbed because you don't like the colors on the side of the tank is completely ridiculous.... Debris(seeweeds) in a tank is actually a good thing. In nature pods and different amphiopods uses them for homes and foods. I find for my self it makes my tank look more natural as well.

When you know about chemistry you actually can identify whats going on in the sand and admire nature at work instead of interfearing. High biological activity in the sand will encourage lots of bugs to eat up detritus and produce pods, and other foods for fish, pods, and other critter that eats cyanobacteria, never had cyano and i feed a lot .

I have a very high nutrient tank , because i have an NPS zone , i mostly have LPS and lots of gorgonians that i feed every hours with a dosing pump. Plus , clams, a feather starfish and a basket starfish all fed every hour with a dosing pump, and i don't have a single problem with cyano or detritus problem, because my sand is so active with worms and mini snails. And i still feed those at night with Kelp.

My fish are fat from my own , home made food , fed twice a day , with 12 different meats in that mixture plus vitamins and plankton , one thing i found is that fish that was brough to me with ich , totally disapeared with good food and variety of it. people are so affraid of feeding, because they forget to keep their sand alive and well fed to pick up the trash that falls into it after. If you have a good foundation , (sand) you can feed all you want , the rest will be eaten away no problem, by your little critters in the sand. Most of my dosing are from fauna marin ; for sponges, gorgonians, filter feeders, Reef-Roids, all mixed up in a solution fed every hour .

I used a wine cooler for refrigerate the solution otherwise it goes bad. and its fed through the dosing pump. 3ml/hour

You can buy these and other like these at any good health store like sobeys or tree huger stores, they cost less than the LFS and last longer. One leaf use to last a week at the bottom of the tank. But when the population of critter grew, one every 2 days was needed to keep up. After they've been chewed up a bit the tang and the rest of the fish goes on it. The blenny's loves this. So does the foxface.

Making your own food cost less and last longer. If you consider the slab of mysis at +- $24 for 494g that we buy at the LFS. I make mine for $ 18 but with 12 different meats and its 990g per slab or $9 per 494g ; and it last 7 months $126 worth of fresh seafoods i buy once and process it and zip lock it. The process take about 2h of my time. You want to save money thats where you do it.
​

I'm glad your system works:-D but its my understanding that a shallow sandbed does not provide enough habitat for a healthy thriving population of worms and bugs. Especially when there are predators of these organisms in the picture. Such as dragonettes wrasses sand gobies or stars. So that could cause a problem. And bacteria grow on surfaces too so you will not remove all of them by vacuuming a sandbed. Your animals do look happy. just curious how deep is your sand bed?

 

[Aquaph8]

I like to vacuum my sand, makes me feel all warm inside.

 

[Hellsinki]

I vacuum my 1-1.5" sand bed at almost every water change. Here is my philosophy: I have a 30 gallon tank and change only 2 gallons per week. I vacuum random spots leaving most of the bed undisturbed. So my method is a hybrid one. There is plenty of living matter left behind each week and I don't think there is any negative impact that you can test for. The brown nasty smelly water coming out of the sand is good enough reason for me.