Vectra and neptune Apex

[akaimal]

I bought the L1 pump and tried a few hours to connect it to the WXM module. Then I found out that its not compatible with WXM any more . Why are you doing this? WXM support was promised when the pump was released. Are you planning on releasing a software update soon?

Lot of people are unhappy with L1 just because of this.

 

[RandoReefer]

I bought the L1 pump and tried a few hours to connect it to the WXM module. Then I found out that its not compatible with WXM any more . Why are you doing this? WXM support was promised when the pump was released. Are you planning on releasing a software update soon?

Lot of people are unhappy with L1 just because of this.

I understand that your frustration echoes that of many other customers who bought, or were considering buying, the Vectra pumps. (Quite honestly, I was slightly disappointed myself. Being that, I too use Apex products and at one time utilized the WXM module.):mad:

However, this topic is still debated about today and is sort of a tight-lipped topic for the parties involved.

That being said, many people have derived their own conclusions as to why EcoTech Marine didn't provide Apex compatibility for the latest Vectra pump. Personally, I think that EcoTech wouldn't want to cater to a company that has developed products which provide competition to their own. (Say, for example, you owned a cake bakery and had a unique flour to make your cakes. You agreed to share that special flour with a bread bakery down the street. It doesn't affect your personal market, because you aren't baking bread. Then you find out that the bread bakery just released its own line of cakes...still using the same flour you gave them. Now that the bread bakery is in your market, would you still give them the flour?)

As an EcoTech Product Test Team member, I did get an earlier opportunity to review the product launch marketing information. I saw pamphlets, websites, and product write-ups almost immediately after they were public. In all of those, not once did I ever see mentioned that WXM compatibility was "promised" or absolute. In fact, what was said was that they would look into it down the road but immediately there would be NO compatibility...... If you read or saw something contrary to that, I ask you to please link to it here or forward it.

Finally, as this is a sensitive topic and I've provided personal opinions, I feel the need to remind folks of my signature line. Please understand that I do not speak as a direct representative to EcoTech Marine. I am simply a hobbyist with an affinity for EcoTech products, and every once in a while they let me play with the new stuff before it comes out!

 

[akaimal]

I understand that your frustration echoes that of many other customers who bought, or were considering buying, the Vectra pumps. (Quite honestly, I was slightly disappointed myself. Being that, I too use Apex products and at one time utilized the WXM module.):mad:

However, this topic is still debated about today and is sort of a tight-lipped topic for the parties involved.

That being said, many people have derived their own conclusions as to why EcoTech Marine didn't provide Apex compatibility for the latest Vectra pump. Personally, I think that EcoTech wouldn't want to cater to a company that has developed products which provide competition to their own. (Say, for example, you owned a cake bakery and had a unique flour to make your cakes. You agreed to share that special flour with a bread bakery down the street. It doesn't affect your personal market, because you aren't baking bread. Then you find out that the bread bakery just released its own line of cakes...still using the same flour you gave them. Now that the bread bakery is in your market, would you still give them the flour?)

As an EcoTech Product Test Team member, I did get an earlier opportunity to review the product launch marketing information. I saw pamphlets, websites, and product write-ups almost immediately after they were public. In all of those, not once did I ever see mentioned that WXM compatibility was "promised" or absolute. In fact, what was said was that they would look into it down the road but immediately there would be NO compatibility...... If you read or saw something contrary to that, I ask you to please link to it here or forward it.

Finally, as this is a sensitive topic and I've provided personal opinions, I feel the need to remind folks of my signature line. Please understand that I do not speak as a direct representative to EcoTech Marine. I am simply a hobbyist with an affinity for EcoTech products, and every once in a while they let me play with the new stuff before it comes out!

Its unfortunate that business politics is taking focus away from the customers. At the end of the day its very bad that even after spending so much money on trying to make thing work, you have to deal with such issues.

Tim Marks at ecotech promised WXM support. Please see article and video.
https://reefbuilders.com/2015/08/04/vectra-m1-l1-dc-pumps-ecotech-marine-wanted/
#9 3rd party controllers – With legions of WXM modules out in the world, it will be no problem for the Vectra to communicate with third party controllers such as the Apex. This feature won’t be seen quite at the launch of the Vectra pump but it should follow suit fairly shortly after Ecotech actually starts catching up with orders and the actual production of the Vectra pumps.

 

[RandoReefer]

Its unfortunate that business politics is taking focus away from the customers. At the end of the day its very bad that even after spending so much money on trying to make thing work, you have to deal with such issues.

Tim Marks at ecotech promised WXM support. Please see article and video.
https://reefbuilders.com/2015/08/04/vectra-m1-l1-dc-pumps-ecotech-marine-wanted/
#9 3rd party controllers – With legions of WXM modules out in the world, it will be no problem for the Vectra to communicate with third party controllers such as the Apex. This feature won’t be seen quite at the launch of the Vectra pump but it should follow suit fairly shortly after Ecotech actually starts catching up with orders and the actual production of the Vectra pumps.

I agree, it is unfortunate to be at the receiving end of business politics.

The article you quoted was written by Jake Adams, so the "...but it should follow suit fairly shortly" comment wasn't from Tim directly. I interpret that as a hopeful comment from a fellow consumer, Jake Adams. Also, I don't hear Tim guarantee Apex compatibility at any time during the video. It's a lot of "should's" and "maybe's" and "possibly's" that were thrown out during the launch.

I agree that it sucks that everyone seemed to be playing coy with the idea of Apex compatibility. It kind of filled the rest of us up with a sense of promise that it would happen. But, from what I've seen and remember, it was always presented as a "possibility" rather than a direct "promise".

 

[akaimal]

I agree, it is unfortunate to be at the receiving end of business politics.

The article you quoted was written by Jake Adams, so the "...but it should follow suit fairly shortly" comment wasn't from Tim directly. I interpret that as a hopeful comment from a fellow consumer, Jake Adams. Also, I don't hear Tim guarantee Apex compatibility at any time during the video. It's a lot of "should's" and "maybe's" and "possibly's" that were thrown out during the launch.

I agree that it sucks that everyone seemed to be playing coy with the idea of Apex compatibility. It kind of filled the rest of us up with a sense of promise that it would happen. But, from what I've seen and remember, it was always presented as a "possibility" rather than a direct "promise".

Anyway I already paid for the wireless module built into the Vectra controller just like my 2 MP60s controlled by WXM. Never thought Ecotech will pull this cheap trick on us. I want sombody who works at Ecotech to reply here.

 

[JP Reef]

Anyway I already paid for the wireless module built into the Vectra controller just like my 2 MP60s controlled by WXM. Never thought Ecotech will pull this cheap trick on us. I want sombody who works at Ecotech to reply here.

You paid for the wireless mode that Ecotech designed for it's system not APEX as was the design for all their equipment. You can't even buy a non-wireless Vectra. If there is a conflict between Ecotech and Neptune then they need to resolve it which is why they haven't made any official statements on when or if APEX control will come.

 

[lefkonj]

Hopefully they make the system talk to the APEX but I highly doubt it. The system spent several years consolidating control around few controller companies, but now if I built the tank the way I wanted I would have 3 or 4 'controllers' to manage my system, not what I was thinking for my next system.

 

[RandoReefer]

You paid for the wireless mode that Ecotech designed for it's system not APEX as was the design for all their equipment. You can't even buy a non-wireless Vectra. If there is a conflict between Ecotech and Neptune then they need to resolve it which is why they haven't made any official statements on when or if APEX control will come.

This helped me understand @akaimal 's line of thought that leads to thinking "Wireless" EcoTech products mean they are APEX compatible. True, as @JP Reef suggests here, the "wireless" versions of EcoTech products are intended to be "wireless" with the EcoTech ReefLink controller...exclusively. The compatibility with APEX has always been an afterthought. They were never intended to automatically be "Apex Ready". Which leads into my next comments...

Hopefully they make the system talk to the APEX but I highly doubt it. The system spent several years consolidating control around few controller companies, but now if I built the tank the way I wanted I would have 3 or 4 'controllers' to manage my system, not what I was thinking for my next system.

I agree, when first starting down the road of aquarium "control-ability" I wanted One to Rule Them All. This is why I purchased an APEX. One of the perks was that I could also control my EcoTech products with the same controller. The world was great!

Fast forward to the most recent years, Neptune Systems begin to expand on their product name. (Of course...Who want's to be known as a one-trick pony?) So they began developing products, under their own name, that could rival/replace the same products that was supported on their APEX controller. Instead of being in a primary market which they dominated (controllers), they begin to "encroach" on other company's market base (pumps/powerheads), by releasing the WAV pump. This now makes them a direct competitor for companies like EcoTech Marine.

This direct competition forces CEOs into a decision point. Allow a direct competitor continued compatibility, or make future products incompatible and defend market share? From a business standpoint, and from my bakery example above, it only seems logical to defend market share. Thus, you now have EcoTech products that don't work with Neptune Systems.

Does this mean Neptune Systems is the bad guy, not at all. In my opinion, EcoTech's ReefLink could also be seen as an encroachment on Neptune Systems' market share of aquarium controllers. Which would make sense for Neptune to continue its expansion on the Neptune name. However, ReefLink only controls EcoTech products, whereas Neptune APEX controls several company's products.

I think, in it's inception, Neptune APEX was intended to be the controller to control them all. (Hence, various aquarium product manufacturers allowing access to their products on Neptune's controller platform.) Yet for anyone who understands business, being a "one-trick-pony" only yields sustainable profits for so long. The aquarium equipment industry continues to grow and Neptune Systems felt it was time to begin growing with it. Unfortunately, their growth comes at the cost of a lost convenience for all beloved users of both manufacturer's products.

 

[hybridazn]

A little off topic but does this also effect the quiet drive vortechs with the wxm?

 

[akaimal]

A little off topic but does this also effect the quiet drive vortechs with the wxm?

At this point I won't trust ecotech with anything new. I lost faith in them.

 

[akaimal]

This helped me understand @akaimal 's line of thought that leads to thinking "Wireless" EcoTech products mean they are APEX compatible. True, as @JP Reef suggests here, the "wireless" versions of EcoTech products are intended to be "wireless" with the EcoTech ReefLink controller...exclusively. The compatibility with APEX has always been an afterthought. They were never intended to automatically be "Apex Ready". Which leads into my next comments...



I agree, when first starting down the road of aquarium "control-ability" I wanted One to Rule Them All. This is why I purchased an APEX. One of the perks was that I could also control my EcoTech products with the same controller. The world was great!

Fast forward to the most recent years, Neptune Systems begin to expand on their product name. (Of course...Who want's to be known as a one-trick pony?) So they began developing products, under their own name, that could rival/replace the same products that was supported on their APEX controller. Instead of being in a primary market which they dominated (controllers), they begin to "encroach" on other company's market base (pumps/powerheads), by releasing the WAV pump. This now makes them a direct competitor for companies like EcoTech Marine.

This direct competition forces CEOs into a decision point. Allow a direct competitor continued compatibility, or make future products incompatible and defend market share? From a business standpoint, and from my bakery example above, it only seems logical to defend market share. Thus, you now have EcoTech products that don't work with Neptune Systems.

Does this mean Neptune Systems is the bad guy, not at all. In my opinion, EcoTech's ReefLink could also be seen as an encroachment on Neptune Systems' market share of aquarium controllers. Which would make sense for Neptune to continue its expansion on the Neptune name. However, ReefLink only controls EcoTech products, whereas Neptune APEX controls several company's products.

I think, in it's inception, Neptune APEX was intended to be the controller to control them all. (Hence, various aquarium product manufacturers allowing access to their products on Neptune's controller platform.) Yet for anyone who understands business, being a "one-trick-pony" only yields sustainable profits for so long. The aquarium equipment industry continues to grow and Neptune Systems felt it was time to begin growing with it. Unfortunately, their growth comes at the cost of a lost convenience for all beloved users of both manufacturer's products.

What theses CEO's are missing is belief in synergy. When companies work together they make much more profit. At the end of the day, the customer should be the focus and not the ego of the ceo's.

 

[Broadfield]

At this point I won't trust ecotech with anything new. I lost faith in them.

I own the Vectra M1 and have no complaints. I still run the power through my Apex because I only ever need to turn it off... I don't use feed mode or use it in closed loop. However, once the Neptune COR DC pump becomes available I will be picking one up... along with the FLO meters etc. Neptune graciously put an extra port on the 1Link module that came with my WAV... so it's begging for a COR to be plugged into it.

 

[ChristopherKriens]

I bought the WAV kit hoping that I could control it in EcoSmart Live. So disappointed.

 

[Urbanknight]

I'll use my M1 unit, NIB as a doorstop and continue using my Two jebao dc 15000 to do the work. Dirty word,,,dirty word!

 

[sevens_up77]

I'll use my M1 unit, NIB as a doorstop and continue using my Two jebao dc 15000 to do the work. Dirty word,,,dirty word!

If you want to unload it let me know!

 

[RandoReefer]

I bought the WAV kit hoping that I could control it in EcoSmart Live. So disappointed.

We should elect you to build a new controller. Create a big firewall to keep out the new companies and make the Aquarium Controller great again!... It's going to be huuuge. [emoji4]

 

[sromero287]

Ecotech is the best company in reef products out there. Neptune systems is the best company in controllers for our reefs. But when the controllers company starts offering a full line of reef products like return and circulation pumps and more they become a full competitor for Ecotech. Let's build the reef link in a full controller, I'm down on Ecotech Marine side with their customer service and support. Fair?

 

[Jlobes]

i can totally see ETM developing their own controller over the next year or two. before NS started producing pumps/wavemakers might not have been a focus, but now they may as well. already have the reeflink, so its not crazy to think they will develop their own unit to control everything. heck, maybe ETM heaters/skimmers/atos as well.

 

[Urbanknight]

If you want to unload it let me know!

I'll sure keep you in mind @sevens_up77

 

[Chris155hp]

Yea kinda bummer it doesn't work with wxm.